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| Alright I am finally getting all my eggs in a row with my guitar purchases. I am really getting into this this time around and I am not going to stop until I have my own Acoustic duo and finally out playing again.
Then comes the Band thing I already have started. So to do some of the YES music, I have commited myself to playing the majority of the Bass music from Chris and a little electric guitar work and a bunch of the Acoustic stuff from Steve Howe.
I need a Tiple! Someone here told me a Tiple was the little guitar Steve Howe Plays on a few of the early songs like "All Good People"...
I have been looking for that Portugese 12 string guitar Steve plays on some other stuff from 1977 "Going for the One" but they are very expensive! So I found a way to retune my twelve and use a capo to accomplish this, odd looking, guitars sounds.
Considering every guitar I own was bought between the time I joined this site until now I will end up buying another nice 12 string so I do not have to retune my Adamas! We all know how hard that can be in a hurry!
I still cannot find a Tiple? The only ones I see are the old Martin's and they are very expensive? Can someone tell me if these Tiples are tuned the same or similiar as a UKE? I figure there just is not enough room on a Mandolin so I am wondering if the bass strings are the same on a Uke perhaps I can modify an Ovation Uke to hold 10 strings and make this my Tiple or "Tee-Play"?? Any ideas? Looks like the right number of Frets. All I am looking for is a best guess I know this is not an exact science? I will have to work out the bridge strenght issues later I figure an Ovation Uke is going to be pretty strong with no center sound hole. Necessity is the mother of invention! |
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Location: Scotland | Originally the Tiple came from Latin America, principally Argentina, Columbia & Peurto Rico and refers to a small guitar with 12 strings in 4 courses and a scale length of around 22 inches. In the mid-1920's Martin produced a variant which has become the instrument that is generally regarded as the "standard" Tiple design, even though it's something of a bastard instrument. The Martin version has a 17" scale and has 10 strings in 4 courses (2, 3, 3, 2) The first string is paired in unisons, the 2 inner triple courses have a pair of high octave strings each and the 4th course is in octaves, though some players tune this course as unisons. The Martin Tiple is based on their Tenor Uke body size and is tuned like a uke with the lowest string being A. (A D F# B) On a regular guitar this would be the A at fret 2, string 3.
I owned & played an all-Koa Martin Tiple replica for many years. A Martin-style Tiple sounds like a cross between a mandolin, a dulcimer and a 12-string guitar capoed at the 7th fret. It has lots of uses in lots of musical styles & if you can't be bothered to learn to play a Mandolin it can give you the mando vibe, but it's not a mandolin substitute, mostly due to it's Uke tuning. Martin Tiples were made in styles 15, 17, 18 & 28 and they are still available to special order. They may make a production style 28 in small quantities, but new or vintage they are not cheap. I sold my Koa replica to a guy in Austin for over $2K. Most of the South American examples are pretty poor quality unless you pay big bucks.
The 12 string Portugese guitar is probably a Chittara, sometimes called a Cittern, and is used in traditional Portuguese Fado music. The Portugese Cittern has a 19"-23" scale with 12 strings in 6 courses as opposed to the 12 in 4 courses of the South American Tiple. There is also an Irish Cittern (design attributed to Stefan Sobel of Hexham, England) which has 10 strings in 5 courses tuned in 5ths, which is a whole other thing |
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Posts: 2487
| Thanks Paul Sorry for not remembering you were the guy who turned me on to the Tiple. You seem to know these quite well. SO I guess my question would be ??
Would you say a standard UKE Like the Ovation models would work IF I set one up with the 10 strings?
I just can't see spending near $600 or much more for a small Guitar that I will only use for one song?
This is why I want to try and modify a Uke. And I am Ovation all the way with my acoustic equipment so far.
Sounds like I am on the right track. The neck on these little Ukes looks very similiar to that of a Tiple. I plan to try it.
I was just wondering if I could get a heads up from some of you guy's (who are Experts in my mind!) of any problems I may encounter with the structural building makeup on an Ovation Uke with 6 added strings for ten strings total? Am I off the wall with my thinking or could this work? Is there a good- better- best- model Ovation Uke? Like the Ovation Mandolins?
Paul that Portugese Guitar Steve used he called a Vachalla? I think he was missquoted on the name but I have found a web site that gave me the tuning to use with a capo on the third fret of my 12 string and it sounds close enough for me. Again these strange guitars are quite expensive and All I want is to copy the sounds as close as I can without having to purchase a guitar collection like Steve Howes.
Good to hear from you Paul I have not talked with you for some time.
My fingers have been very busy and their getting quicker! Randy |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | I stand in awe. Vielen Dank for the lesson, Herr Professor. Sounds like you're gonna have some considerations there, Randy..... |
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Location: Scotland | Ukes use Nylon strings, Martin Tiples are built much more substantially to deal with the much greater tension of 10 steel strings. So the short answer is no, you can't convert a Uke. Best bet on the cheap is to leave the bottom 2 courses off a 12-string guitar and capo at the 7th, or use a mandolin with light guage strings and tune it like a tiple. |
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| Yep That's what I was a-scert of. I was hoping perhaps with the design of the Ovation Uke that has no center hole the wood bracing under the multiholed would be much stronger than a standard Uke and would be able to handle the extra tension. I figured I could make a 12 string work but I wanted to see if I could get that cute little body style like an actual tiple. I'll have three 12 strings all tuned differently and mounted on performer stands all over the stage to pull these sounds off. Won't be room for the rest of the band!
Thanks for the help Paul.
I thought I would sort of "stump the Doctor" with this question? You guy's know your stuff ! but I am dissapointed just the same. Anyone got a cheap Tiple around they are will to send off to a new home?
Randy |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | If I'm not mistaken, you can't make a mando into a uke, or, I guess a tiple (though I've never touched one) due to intonation problems. You'll have change the frets too. Too much work. Paul's suggestion seems the best bet, just capo up the neck. If you're looking for a delightful sound, have you thought of a charango? same tuning as a uke, plus an extra string. |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | This is delightfully esoteric. I'm not sure I even know the names of all the strings on my 6-strings...... |
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| This does make for interesting chatter, don't it.
Again nice Post Paul, lots of info in there!
I have not researched many of the other strange little guitar types there are. I am already confused enough as it is.
The Uke and the Tiple have enough in common I think I can make it work. It's the body strength issue that may prove my nemesis here.
Alright I am doubtful I will find anyone with a cheap Tiple.. Is there anyone with a reasonable Ovation Uke they can part with in here? I see some on Ebay but I am unsure if there is a model that is stronger in a Uke like the difference between an Elite and an Applause? and I need something strong if I am to try this?
Randy |
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Location: San Bernardino, California | A little bit off topic, but has anyone tryed one of these bridges:
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailpieces/Electric_guitar,_non-trem_tailpieces/Hipshot_Trilogy_Bridges.html |
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Location: Scotland | Yes, they work up to a point. The problem is that the tuning is never totally accurate because the neck moves around as the string tension changes, so you always have to tweak the tuning at the headstock. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | What about one of these:
http://www.fbass.com/octave12.htm |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Here's a vintage Martin Tiple for $10.
Martin Tiple |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Six days....gives one pause, eh? Cute little critter. I mean, how hard would it be to put a new bridge on that li'l brat? |
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Location: Scotland | That'll probably get to 4 figures, even with the busted bridge. |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | So, fixing the bridge would be, comparatively, "a drop in the bucket".
For those curious (and compulsive individuals like me), this is how these little critters hold up 10 strings:
http://www.luth.org/plans/pl37.jpg |
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| I am on it Thanks for the heads up? Wow I just checked and did not find this last night. Problem is it will go higher than I am willing to pay? Old Martin stuff can be a bit nutty sometimes. I'll go $300- $400 but that is only because I know I can always sell it for this. IF these did not have any resale value one would be worth $150 to me to have so I could play some of Steve Howes stuff. Bridge looks like an easy fix. Thanks guy's
Randy |
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Location: Scotland | If you get this, though I think it'll go for a lot more than you want to pay, the guy who made my replica may still have some bridges which will be exact replacements, or could make another relatively cheaply. |
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| Wow Paul Thats a great thing to know! I figured to have to make one myself? That would save me some time. Funny I am after a Tiple and one comes up on the Bay just when I had decided to give up and convert an Ovation Ukulele for this purpose.
Paul what would you say this Tiple would go for? Or wouldn't you want to say? Thanks
Randy |
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February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Martin Tiples have shot up in the last few years & style 18's in good shape generally fetch well over a grand. Despite the damage there's no accounting for the ebay factor and you could grab it or it could go nuts.
Elderly have a style 15 for around $900 |
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February 2004
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| Yeah the Ebay factor? Weird I tried to sell some old postcards with a starting bid of $9.99 last year Could not get a starting bid so I put them asside and tried them again a few weeks ago. They went for $62 this time? I'll find something Paul The Ovation Ukulele conversion will ba a last resort. |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | You may want to check these out, also. Good luck! |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Hmmm......let's try that again:
http://search.ebay.com/tiple
Sorry. |
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| Yeah I got high bids on both of them for now? |
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Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida | Hey Guys let'a ALL pray that North Country "scores" the Martin Tiple on E-bay, for little money...
"Group Prayer" is amazing... I saw a Category 4 Hurricane a few years back tht turned north for "No Apparent Reason" at the last moment, and spared South Florida a direct hit, from Group Prayer !!!
AB |
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OK Here's a technical Question Ovation related
