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June 2004
Posts: 95
Location: Monroe, Ohio (Cincinnati) | Hi all,
Is it poor form to try all the Ovations at guitar stores and then buy what you like through ebay or from someone over the Internet?
Since most stores have Internet commerce also, I don't really have a problem doing this.
Also, when you go into the store, you give them a chance to hook you with something you can't leave without.
It would be interesting to get not only buyer's opinions, but also opinions from those of you in music retail.
What do you all think? |
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December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | You should buy from whomever makes you happy. |
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May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Nope no problem. I live in NYC and if you're not a shrewd shopper you will be ripped off. Guaranteed. That said you have to trust the person you're buying from. Make yourself smart about what you want to buy. There's no guarantee you won't be ripped off, but you'll know you did you're best. You're community standards will be different. An educated consumer is the best customer. |
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August 2003
Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | Complicated question...for cars, will give the dealer where I have test driven models the 1st opportunity. I test drive from a dealer that would give me the best after-sale service. Yet, if they won't give me a reasonable deal, I'll check out other dealers. After warranty, my long term mechanic will get the service (since 1984.)
Guitars are different...for me, I look at how I can support those that support me...in Portland, Oregon in late 70's and early 80's, I had a guitar store where I bought my instruments. Maybe not the best price, before internet, but a strong relationship. Got an inexpensive ($20) but great setup on the 1658 today from Moze Guitars in San Diego, will do everything I can to support them on the luthier/tech/parts side. Al has been very supportive of this board and me - both of the older models and new ones, in addition to answering some of my stupid questions. In addition, I haven't seen better new prices than what Al has offered me. Can't play them first because I am in San Diego but no one else had the guitars. As to the Custom Legend 30th Anniversary, I believe I was the first non-dealer to receive one. Fortunately, we have the feedback from others on the board and the consistency from the factory. US made Ovation, know I will like it. Can't say that for some of the other factories.
Does an internet or Guitar Center (GC) deserve my guitar purchase? Usually can't beat the price or speed of delivery from Al.
To date, I have never played a guitar at GC - lack of inventory and sensory overload. As to Ovations and Adamas, their inventory consists of Celebs or old strings on last year's Legend. Sure, I buy some strings and guitar stands/racks from GC but I doubt if I will buy an Adamas or Ovation from them. They just got the 30th Anniv Custom Legend in last week (end of production was mid February, still no 1777 LX Legend.) Have never seen an Adamas at GC. And, do their salesman care? In May, I asked their lead salesman about the LX - said one was coming in but didn't know which one, then said "Check back later, Dude." Last week I asked general questions about the LX - gee, sorry I bothered them (wasn't sure if it was because they hadn't had their coffee or lack of knowledge.)
You have a different experience locally, great-support them. If you have my experience, try to find a guitar to play or ask others, then check with Al.
To Al, it is an instrument, to others a unit of sale.
Think about this, Al is coming all of the way out here next week for the SoCal get-together. Not bad. |
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July 2003
Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Mark, more importantly, there is enough variation within models on sound, that you have no assurance that the one that arrives on your porch will sound like the one you liked at GC or elsewhere. I buy at the stores within driving distance here; then I know what I am getting.
Roger |
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June 2002
Posts: 6202
Location: Phoenix AZ | It would be unethical to playtest at one shop and purchase at another (or online). Same goes for downloading music and movies from the internet and photocopying sheet music. I would never do this. |
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Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Standingman, Shirley you jest? |
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Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | who you calling shirley? |
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Posts: 95
Location: Monroe, Ohio (Cincinnati) | StandingO,
I agree with you about downloading recordings and copying sheet music. (Except the P&W music books I buy at Franciscan Univ. in Steubenville which grant you the priviledge to make copies for your Worship band for non-profit use.
However, isn't going to a store to window shop for guitars kind of like going on one of those free 3 day, 4 night vacations so the salespeople can show you the time shares and try to sell you one.
I would think this would be the reasoning the stores use to allow people to play the guitars without obligation to buy.
This again is a fallout issue of increased Internet use, by more and more people, that is forcing everyone to look at the way they approach business.
If stores suffer too badly at the hand of internet sales, they might change the policy of letting you play guitars at the store without obligation. I believe most stores, however, have taken the route of having their own Web Sites and commerce to do the, if you can't beat 'em - join 'em thing.
My intent in bringing this up, is that I am still formulating my own opinions on this subject. I thought this would be an interesting discussion to get lots of opinions from many different points of view.
Some of us may even change our opinions while discussin' and ponderin' this. |
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March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | ". . the music store didn't have 20 Ovations for me to choose from? . . ."
Does anyone but me find it "odd" that a music store on the outskirts of New Hartford would have only 3-4 Ovations.
. . . but then again, I wonder how many liquor stores in Golden, CO make a real living selling Coors . . :rolleyes: |
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December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | I have 20 in stock at all times but I am a mailorder business. |
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March 2004
Posts: 201
Location: Vernon, CT | Having done many customer service surveys and statistical analyses in my job what people want is "respect" and to be treated like they are important. There is a quote from a customer service book that says "Treat the customer like they are going to die at midnight!" Sounds strange but when you think about it you would show a preson a lot of respect in that incidence.
A total turnoff for me and a wrong sales approach is when some young kid assaults you at the door and says "may I help you." WRONG or follows you around. I walk out the door.
Yes, we all want the best deal but customer service and qulaity product have become seamless (all in one) which is why I by Ovations and from Al P. Play on!
John L.
Legend LX
Balladeer LX
Std. Balladeer
Celebrity C026
Tornado (1970)
Takamine 12 String
Martin D16GT
Fender P-Bass |
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February 2004
Posts: 2487
| I guess it seems to me this is the whole purpose of having a guitar shop? it is to sell to those who want to see and play what they buy?
I like the internet it has opened up the market for me completely! I have been after some fairly rare and collectable Ovations and Rickenbackers for a while? I found them all through the computer so far. The only downside is I "HATE" sending guitars through the mail! and I dislike not being able to actually play the guitar and see first hand what it looks like before I send a few thousand dollars cross country?
So I guess the guy who has a store has the inventory hanging there so it can be "Gently" handled and tried out?
I sure wish I could find the guitars I am after locally? OOh well? Randy |
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Posts: 1792
Location: Rego Park, NY, | Al,
Cases of Coors or Ovation guitars? :D :eek: :rolleyes: :cool:
Phil |
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March 2002
Posts: 15680
Location: SoCal | Lisa:
Music stores carry what they think they can sell, based upon their experience. Not every store, regardless of their proximaty to the factory is going to carry Ovations. Once again, this is not good for Ovation's p.r. |
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May 2003
Posts: 79
Location: Toronto, Canada | I agree with John Lawrence that respect for the customer (actually, mutual respect between the customer and the seller) is important.
I am courteous to the salespeople and handle guitars with care.
As a customer I would like to be treated with courtesy; I don't expect to be teated as "important", just with common courtesy. When that is the case I do my best to support the store, whether it be buying strings or buying guitars.
In my experience, however, that rarely happens. I suppose that's understandable for stores that have to deal with volume in terms of customers. I don't go at peak times and I don't bother the salespeople when they are swamped.
However, my impression is that good treatment mostly reserved local "celebrities", friends, or "insiders", or conversely, neophytes with money to spend. Others are treated with aloofness or downright disdain.When that happens I walk out and take my business elsewhere.
I rarely try out guitars in stores for that reason. I try not to approach the salespeople unless I am absolutely sure of what I want and intend to buy. Not worth the aggravation.
Having said that, I have also met some great people whom do credit to their music stores and the retail business. Just not enough of 'em.
wemedge |
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March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | "........just about had it with the dummies book...."
NOW she's GETTING it!!!
:D
I, for one absolutely refuse to buy a reference book that is tailored for "Dummies" (with the exception of "Know your Volkswagen - the Compleat Guide for the Compleat Idiot" circa. 1975).
TOSS the book! (and stay here)
Acoustic Guitar Magazine www.acousticguitar.com
also has a "Beginners" section on their Message Board that is quite informative (and is shared by people just like you).
Ovations are somewhat "pooh-poohed" by the eliteist, wood-guitar purist cogniscente (many of which you'll find on the aforementioned url . . so . . keep the "O" word to yourself :-) because they don't see Ovations in the same vein as the traditional "box" guitar. Their problem.
Too bad. You like it? PLAY it!
That why we're all here. . . |
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May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | Originally posted by alpep:
I have 20 in stock at all times but I am a mailorder business.
Any O jazzboxes? I think they were the Thunderhead, but what do I know? Breadwinners? If I don't find an O to sate my GAS, soon, I'm going to have to break down and buy that Ron Wood Tele... :) |
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May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | Originally posted by cliff:
[QBI, for one absolutely refuse to buy a reference book that is tailored for "Dummies" (with the exception of "Know your Volkswagen - the Compleat Guide for the Compleat Idiot" circa. 1975).
[/QB]
Is that the one with the cool cartoons, witty insights, and was written by John Muir? I still have a (dogeared, oil stained) copy somewhere. Memories... |
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June 2004
Posts: 365
Location: NC | I did the ole guitar shop looking to find it elsewhere for cheaper. I did not feel guilty due to fact I told the owner that I was just shopping and looking for the best deal............loyalty set aside for your local merchant, well if you can't sell it for same or cheaper then I would be crazy to buy from you. I do matting and framing on the side and undercut the stores all the time because they mark up so much a man ca't get a deal. I make a few bucks and so the customer gets a great framing and mat job for almost 50% off retail stores.....we all win.
I am a value shopper and spend hours online and at stores to get the hopefully lowest deal to get. I recently tried out the Elite LX at my local and found it cheaper online which also included the hard shell case that the local was not sure he wanted to give in to.
Sorry, but I look for the deal or steal in some cases.........$$$ for the working man is too hard to come by to piss it away!
Bottom line........."If you can't compete then take a leap!"
I like loyalty but don't piss down my back in the sunshine and tell me it's raining when I know theres a better deal to be had.
I feel like Dennis Miller on a rant........ |
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March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | ". . I still have a (dogeared, oil stained) copy somewhere . . ."
Wanna sell it?? |
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August 2002
Posts: 623
Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | All in all, it’s a game that GC has taken into consideration. Out of ten people who walk into the store, GC knows they will only sell something to X percent of them. When it comes down to it, they have a thriving business despite all who try but don’t buy. If you don’t buy it, someone else will...eventually. But I think it’s fair to consider the time you take of a helpful and knowledgable salesperson and include that against whatever amount of money you might save somewhere else. They may just have saved you a bundle in experiential guidance alone (if you get a good salesperson-good luck).
I think the key is to be educated (through the net) about the item you want and pricing BEFORE you go into a store. That's what I try to do most of the time because a guitar or expensive gear is an important investment to me and I don’t have time or cash to waste. I've actually gone into GC with a print out from ebay or another dealer and said, "Look, I can get this new, including shipping, for less than what you're selling it for, can you match it?" Often they can or will, if only to build your loyalty. Or they may throw something else in ‘at cost’ to make up for the difference.
In addition, I do make it a policy that if a salesperson spends time with me, I get his card with his working hours on it, and I WILL return and seek him out to make a purchase so he gets the commission. When I do build a rapport with a salesman I trust, I will try to swing my business his way even if he can’t always get the best price...it’s give and take and the reward is definitely there.
All that said...my newest guitar is on order with AL.
Johnny |
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March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Such is the "Paradox of the Roundback", . . . . . Grasshopper |
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June 2002
Posts: 6202
Location: Phoenix AZ | W2, Please call me Shirley more often, that was fun. About the question first posted here - geez can't anyone take a joke? As long as GC is going to leave lots of non-O guitars laying out there with rusted strings on them, I'm sure as hell going to play test them and them go elsewhere or online to purchase. This is America, damn it. Shameless plug for Al, I recently made my first purchase from him and it was smooth, sweet and painless. But it was still more fun when Bill called me Shirley. |
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Joined:
July 2004
Posts: 474
Location: Anchorage, Alaska | Here in Alaska we only have a couple guitar stores and they are not usually stocked as well and anything I have seen in the lower 48. What I do is try to shop and audition guitars locally, then give the local dealer the first shot at making me a deal as close to the best price I found elseware (internet usually). If they can get anywhere near I will buy from them, otherwise I purchase online and hope for the best on the "sight unseen" guitar. |
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Ethical question about trying guitars
