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December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | well I have been setting up my guitars all my life. I just could not afford to take them to the music store to I learned the hard way trial and error.
I had a question posed to me today and I just don't know how to answer it. someone asked me what the distance from string to fret distance should be and you know I honestly could not answer him.
I NEVER EVER MEASURED IT. I have set up a bunch of guitars and I just go by how well does it play and how well does it feel and Great it does not buzz..
am I wrong? |
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Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Two Pennies for Acoustic.
Two Dimes for Electric.
No, you are not wrong...
If it feels right it is right. |
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Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 1484
Location: Michigan | i don't know about anyone else but i personally don't give a sh@% :rolleyes: how far the actual string is from the fret but i pay someone to make it play and work for my liking.
the only thing i could figure why someone would ask it is to maybe get an idea of what the factory setup would be for a starting point to setting up their own guitars.
damn al don't go high tech on us here and start setting up guitars by inches and fractions and not what the customer likes. :p GWB |
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Joined:
December 2008
Posts: 1455
Location: Texas | Depends on the player and guitar doesn't it?
Roughly? If a dime slips in anywhere along the bass E sting & the fretboard without touching fret or string, lower the action.
(I guess that is not a very good international solution, though.)
…that's my 10¢ worth… ;) |
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Joined:
November 2008
Posts: 1119
Location: Michigan | Yep, for the most part I fiddle with my guitars. I am a tinkering kind of person.
The manual gives the suggested string heights at the 12th fret but that is only part of the set up. |
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Joined:
January 2010
Posts: 15
| I used to use a dime for a test of action and relief, but I finally decided that I'd rather take an instrument elsewhere and have someone who really knew the craft and her tools, and who could translate what I say I want into what the instrument can do.
Every time I think about how much I could save by buying tools for doing nut, saddle and fret work, I think that I'd rather have someone else fix anything unforseen that happens during a set up.
Given that a lot of my instruments are not tuned in a standard way (full fifths, octave full fifths 12 string, carbon standard length converted to baritone, etc.), I'm happy to do an initial set up to decide where things need to be done to make it optimal for me, and then to let the expert handle it.
Incidentally, the lowest strings on my acoustic guitars typically have a string height of 1.5mm or less at the twelfth fret, with the high string even lower. That's pretty low, and I'm not sure I could do that and still get a clean sound along the entire fretboard. That comfort of use, combined with past hand problems, makes the monetary investment completely worth it to me.... |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12759
Location: Boise, Idaho | Factory recommends 3/32 between the bass E string and the 12th fret and 2/32 under the treble E. I just get mine as low as I like without getting buzz when I hit the low E pretty hard. One of the local Adamas players gets his set up really low and then tunes down a whole step and strums pretty hard when he plays. He gets a lot of string jangling, but that's what he likes. |
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Joined:
June 2006
Posts: 7307
Location: South of most, North of few | Do all my own setups, and I usually tweek as I go. I've learned a lot like Al through trial and error, although no real un reversible errors. Here\'s a great site with tips from a man who many consider a master. I've owned a guitar (now at Blue's house) that was set up by him, and I agree. |
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Joined:
November 2008
Posts: 1119
Location: Michigan | Great link Jim. After checking the neck for clearence (relief) the nut in the next thing I work on. Like he said a few thousandths at the nut can make a far bigger differnce in playability and intonation of the guitar playing open strings on chords in the first 3 or 4 frets. I like to get the nut slots as low as possible to start before I start to mess with the string height at the 12th fret.
1. Check neck relief (bow in neck)
2. Check nut slot height
3. Check height at 12th fret. |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7237
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | If I'm looking at a guitar for the first time, I usually START at what the factory recommends. I even adjust intonation and such based on the factory specs and recommended string gauge. Once I'm convinced all is as it should be, if it's a guitar I'm intending to keep and play, I switch to my favorite strings and adjust for playability for my tastes. From then forward, I just make minor adjustments as needed, but most often, if a new guitar comes in, I start with factory specs. |
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Joined:
February 2008
Posts: 747
| Originally posted by alpep:
I have set up a bunch of guitars and I just go by how well does it play and how well does it feel and Great it does not buzz..
am I wrong? I've been doing that way since grade school so it's probably safe to say that you're doing it wrong too..lol |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 5567
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | Al: Ditto!
I will say that the setup on guitars back from the MS is always spot on!
I have been doing it so long it comes natural...had to learn while on the road for so many years...always a different town and no time to trust anyone with the gits I made my living with...so I learned to do it myself...and the setup varies with each guitar and my spec's....
works for me... |
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Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | a 3&2 action is good for light guage strings
I like 3 1/3 and 2 1/2 32nds with mediums
Electrics can be 2 and 1 1/2 but I run them a little higher too, about 2 1/2 and 2 but I use 11s. |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15678
Location: SoCal | I didn't used to but do now. And I'm the first to admit that I'm probably doing it all wrong.
I believe that a guitar needs a decent break angle over the saddle to drive the top, so I'll bring the saddle up to where I want it and then tweak the neck back a little to bring the action down a little. I know. Tweak the neck only for relief (adding or subtracting and deal with the action by raising and lowering the saddle).
I'm not talking about really high saddles, but on an Ovation with a walnut bridge and OPP saddle, I want the black frame that the saddle sits in to he about level or just above the top edge of the bridge. It's a personal preference.
If the guitar can't be set with medium action with the saddle like that then there may be something wrong with the guitar.
With Adamii I's, with the carved bridge, the break angle, no matter what you do, seems to be less, so on my OFC guitar (and I just got done playing with this guitar last week to get it set up right)I've upped the saddle just a little and adjusted the neck. With mediums on it that guitar is now a tone meister.
And yeah, I've decided to keep it...... |
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Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | On the acoustics, I usually just remove all the shims, then start adding them back in until the buzz is gone, if there was any. The electrics are more easily adjustable. I'm not real picky about string height, but I just checked a few at hand and they all are lower than OMA's two penny/two dime method. I'd say maybe 1.5 of each. |
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Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4075
Location: Utah | I do it by eye and feel. As twistedlim said, the nut is the starting point of a complete setup. The Adamas 2080 is the first new guitar I've bought where the nut didn't need some tweaking. Then eyeball a trussrod adjustment followed by shimming the saddle.
The first couple of times I had out the feeler gauges and micrometer, measuring relief. That sure burned up a few hours.
Frets seem to be an important factor. One that is slightly high can make it impossible to get the setup optimised. Carefully leveling and re-crowning can make all the difference in being able to get the action set low without buzzing. |
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Joined:
November 2008
Posts: 1119
Location: Michigan | Yea the frets have to be level or it will be an exercise in frustration. Me don't do frets, although I have been seen with small file taking down a high spot :) . |
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December 2009
Posts: 143
Location: Ontario Canada | Thank you for starting this thread alpep, and thanks Trader Jim for the link. Nice to read about what we've been doing.
Jim |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 782
Location: Waurika OK | Interesting topic. I have always done whatever set up I thought was needed.
I have a 24 inch straight edge to check neck bow and a set of feeler gauges. But mostly do it by eye and ear. If a saddle is to high, I sand it down.
One new thing I am going to try on my Epi 12 fret is cutting the saddle into individual segments, one for each string. I read about doing this the other day, suppose to allow each string to apply the same pressure in the slot. (in case the bottom of the slot is not level) |
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Joined:
December 2009
Posts: 143
Location: Ontario Canada | I did this on the 1615-4 as they were sectioned in slots and almost all the way through to start with. It didn't make any difference, at least to my weatherbeaten ears.
Jim
Edited. Also don't mix them up because of the various heights and intonation setup for vibrating string lengths. |
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Joined:
August 2005
Posts: 616
Location: cincinnati, ohio | Are we talking the action? I set mine for 3/32" at the 12th fret, using a feeler gauge with light gauge strings. But as someone else said, if it feels right, it is. |
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Joined:
December 2006
Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Other than shim configurations and an occasional TR tweak, I have little to do with set ups.
I must say that TJ did a great job on my 1680 nut. I was happy with it when I removed a shim. I couldn't conceive what could be accomplished to improve the playability. But Jim noted that it might could use a 'touch' on the nut. He was right!
Now... I can do saddles and intonations on an electric, but what about the PUP adjustments? Maybe another thread... |
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Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 4535
Location: Flahdaw | I have 5 guitars and never had one of the set up after buying them. They are probably all over the place. Maybe that's why I really like playing other peoples guitars. |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13996
Location: Upper Left USA | Yes, I set up my own guitars...
I also set up guitars for anyone that asks, especially Yoots that need all the encouragement they can get (nobody should have to play a painful guitar)!
And if you hand me your guitar I almost immediately start looking to see what I would change or mimic about it's playability.
Sometimes the Meds are just not enough. :rolleyes: |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 782
Location: Waurika OK | right you are Jimbob, I will mark them to make sure. Your 1615 was acoustic only I hope. An Ovation would probably have a flat cut in the slot. |
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so you setup your own guitars?
