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Location: Louisville, OH 44641 | I was looking through the 2009 Ovation catalog recently and saw several guitars listed as "AX" (ie Elite AX and Balladeer AX). I was expecting to see "LX". Is this a new model and if so, what's different? I'm obviously a little behind the times.
Thanks. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | AX means made in Asia. What used to be US made Elite LX and Balladeer LX are now Asian made Elite AX and Balladeer AX. Not bad guitars. |
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Location: Louisville, OH 44641 | Wow. Was this a move by Fender? Has Ovation lowered prices? Are the US LX models still available or not...I'm assuming they are no longer available if production has been moved to China or Korea.
So what is left at the Mothership?...Adamas? Legends?
I know I'm anal about some things but I won't be buying any AX models. Those of us that work for manufacturig companies understand this. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Appears to be a steady migration of Ovation product to mostly offshore manufacture. Frees up space in the US factory for more Guild production. From a business standpoint it probably makes sense. Fender has had a long history of making very profitable guitars offshore so it's hard to argue with the logic. Just because they are not made in the US any longer doesn't mean they are not still good guitars. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | The newer Ultras were good guitars... solid top, OP-Pro, for cheap.
Now there are no Ultras, but Elites and Balladeers are made in the same factory for cheap.
They just don't stop in Connecticut to get tuned any longer.
And they are not quite as cheap... But they are basically the same guitars.
When they sold the last of the USA Elites and Balladeers, they went for around $600 with a case.
So now the AX are basically solid-top Celebrity's at USA Prices.
I agree with Stellarjim...
Even though I have bought my share of import guitars, and continue to do so, (see sig line)
I will not be buying any of the AX or TX series. |
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Location: Louisville, OH 44641 | I won't make a big stink here about Ovation's move to Asian production. I will only say that I'm very disappointed and in my mind, Elites and Balladeers have basically become Celebrity models.
I love the 3 American Ovations I own and hope to obtain more...especially an FD14 or Ute. But as someone that works for a dying breed (a US manufacturer) it's been painful to watch so many American industries desimated by Asian manufacturing and the rat race for the almighty dollar. What's the unemployment rate these days? Are we going to find work for Americans by giving everyone a job in sales?
So which domestic Ovation models are left? |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by stellarjim:
So which domestic Ovation models are left? Adamas and Legend. Folklore and Artist. And VXT's, I think.
Not many.
It is pretty much like this... Unless you stumble onto some New Old Stock, you will be buying used. |
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Location: SoCal | Gretsch's entire production is overseas. Take a look at their reissue of the Chet Atkins Country Gentleman. You won't find better quality...... |
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| Asian build quality? One word - Takamine. 'nuf said.
Yeah, part of the move to overseas production was motivated by profit. But it's our (as in American consumers in general) fault. We refuse to pay the real cost of what things are worth, instead seeking out and buying the cheapest (cost-wise and quality-wise) things we can find, and then bitch about low quality and poorly made items that don't last. "They just don't make 'em like they used to." Right - and we vote with our dollars by continuing to buy the cheapest we can find instead of voting for local craftsmen who take pride in their work by paying a bit more. Blame the international conglomerates all you want - they're in business because we support them. The big box music chains sell their mediocre crap and people buy it, at the cost of closing down the mom&pop that knows you by name. |
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Location: Louisville, OH 44641 | I'm really not questioning the quality. I've been to China 4 times now...each time to take more work over there from Ohio. China has modernized dramatically over the last decade and there are many quality shops at this point.
But if you look at the big picture, many of us have still have jobs but many of us have lost jobs too. And most of our customers have an overseas option where they can buy for less money. We've already lost many industries and many people believe the true unemployment rate among healthy adults is much higher than advertised (because of the way the data is collected). So suffice it to say I'm very disappointed in Ovation.
I was OK with the whole Celebrity and Applause line. You want an Asian made, lower priced Ovation?...here they are. But at least I had an option to buy the American made models, which is exactly what I have done and will continue to do. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | With the technology the way it is, you can get fine quality from anywhere in the world.
Since you can get equal quality from anywhere in the world...
It just comes down to where you want your money to go to.
If you are buying Ovation, or Martin, or Gibson, because it is American made...
You want it to be American Made!
As to Takamine... The top of the line is handmade in Japan, the lesser Taks are made elsewhere...
Like in Korea.
Nobody is saying that they don't make good stuff elsewhere...
Swiss Watches, Italian Racing Cars, German Chocolate...
But sometimes it is just nice to keep making something in America.
With a Lifetime Repair Warranty, as opposed to a 5-year throw-it-away and give you another one warranty. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | If people had bought more USA Balladeers, Legends and Elites instead of scouring craigs list and ebay for the latest dirt cheap used bargins maybe they would still be producing them. |
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Location: SoCal | I knew this would be my fault somehow.... |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | I knew this would be my fault somehow....  |
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Location: south east Michigan | Originally posted by Gallerinski:
...the latest dirt cheap used bargins... I would not underestimate the effect that ebay, amazon and creigslist has had. Who would have thunk 12 years ago that you could be part of what is basicly a world-wide garage sale.
I can't imagine what the manufacturing and retail landscape will look like 12 years from now.
We had to replace out washer & dryer last summer. I tried real hard to by American made machines. Whirpool used to make good stuff right here in Michigan. After a lot of research and shopping, we ended up with Samsung. The machines are great. I just wish they were made here. |
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Location: Warren,Pa. | For anyone who's familiar with the LX technology, none of the imports have the new CNC neck-to-body joint. They get an epoxyed mortice-and-tenon joint. This pretty much makes the imported Ovations into throwaways. USA-made O's can be worked on if a problem develops as the guitar ages. With the imports you play them until something goes wrong, then pitch it and get a new one. Isn't everything going that way? I'll bet Fender makes more money off an imported Elite than they were making from a USA model. The changes they've made cheapened the product without being noticeable to the average consumer. : ( |
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Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | All the more reason to buy up the nice old models and send them in for refurbishing. |
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Location: Yalova/Turkey | I have to add a recent observation concerning my CSE-445 RRB. I didn´t notice this when I bought it, it was rather hard to see, only if the light falls on in a certain angle: The headstock (hope its the right term, where the tuner machines are) is not a solid piece of wood, but put together of two pieces...
Doesn´t it look rather cheap? And I guess with some piece of bad luck it could cause problems too... |
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Location: New Hampsha | This is precious!
The very same people that would consistently tell people NOT to buy that new Ovation but instead to go find and buy a used USA model are complaining because the factory is changing, moving, disappearing?!?
The "Adamas Production Line" consists of two workbenches in a corner, people!
Reap what you sowed! |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | As far as Buying New goes... I bought TWO New Ovations in my Life.
The 2058T and the Sweetwater T.
Otherwise, I have a new computer, a new TV and new Tools in case I ever get a job.
And I have new sox!
But most of my other stuff is Used from Thrift Stores or evilBay.
I have never bought a New Car, or Motorcycle. Is that why Chrysler is in the pits?
After all that, a few hundred OFCer's trading used Ovations around should not close a factory.
Fendrovation moved the factory because the workers in Korea will work all day for less than one hour's USA worker wage. With 'Stimulus Money' the Federal Government would subsidize Fender building a new factory for Guild if that is what the CEO's choice was to be. That woulda created construction jobs and factory workers... The government woulda bought them a factory!
The Powers-That-Be have chosen to go with the Fast, Cheap, Disposable market model for Ovation, while keeping Guild. These folk who bought Kaman are the same folks who said that Ovations were toy guitars.
That is NOT because I buy guitars on evilBay.
The people who make those decisions probably don't even Play guitars.
Nothing Personal... It's just business. :rolleyes:
BTW-- On both of my New Ovations, I had to wait weeks for delivery because they had to make More.
So there is no shortage of people buying New Ovations.
Therefore I should hang-on to my 2058T... That will be the last New Ovation I will ever buy. |
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| Originally posted by Mitzdawg:
This is precious!
The very same people that would consistently tell people NOT to buy that new Ovation but instead to go find and buy a used USA model are complaining because the factory is changing, moving, disappearing?!?
The "Adamas Production Line" consists of two workbenches in a corner, people!
Reap what you sowed! Precious indeed, argument by false equivalence. After all, when someone comes here explicitly stating that they can only spend a maximum of $5-600 and are looking at a Celebrity, telling them that for the same money they can get a superior (used) American-made Ovation cuts into sales of new Celebrity's. After all, every new Celeb sold ensures that the the CT builders have work to do... :rolleyes: |
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Location: Utah | I've been on a kick since the 80's to buy USA made whenever possible. It is certainly very difficult to do sometimes, with parts from all over the world. Much of the electronics inside the Adamas are from Asian semiconductor factories. The petroleum products may be from the middle east. Wood parts may be from anywhere in the world. The metals are mined where these days?
But in the end, I still try to buy American as much as possible. The true cost of an item is not what gets charged to my credit card. The true cost may be higher if the money goes overseas, because that money may never come back. If I buy a guitar made in Connecticut, the workers there will spend their wages locally, supporting local grocery stores, local car dealers, and maybe even buying a ride on my airline. But if I send my money to a Korean luthier, he will build a fine product but may never spend his wages on a USA product or service.
The cost of buying an import is a lot higher than the price tag, but most people don't care that we are permanently exporting wealth in exchange for disposable items.
It's like buying an airline ticket. People vote with their wallets by buying the cheapest ticket they can find on the internet. Then they proceed to complain that they get no meals, have to pay to check a bag, and have no leg room. We are all getting what we paid for, one way or the other. |
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Location: New Hampsha | Originally posted by G8r:
Precious indeed, argument by false equivalence. After all, when someone comes here explicitly stating that they can only spend a maximum of $5-600 and are looking at a Celebrity, telling them that for the same money they can get a superior (used) American-made Ovation cuts into sales of new Celebrity's. After all, every new Celeb sold ensures that the the CT builders have work to do... :rolleyes: Keep telling yourself that. Try realizing that Ovations are Adamases and Ovations AND Celebs AND Applauses!
Diverting money from the purchase of a new Celebrity or Applause to a used Ovation diverted money from the Ovation bottom line. Less money coming in means more pressure to cut costs everywhere. Cost cutting moves factories. Cost cutting CLOSES factories.
And: Fewer people getting into entry level Ovations (That means Celebrities and Applauses for the thickheads) means fewer people are developing the kind of brand loyalty that results in "trading up" to more expensive Ovations (that means Ovations and Adamases, get it?).
So yes, the sale of a $500 Celebrity (or a $300 Applause) helps the guy in Connecticut. |
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| How silly of me. I bow to your obviously superior intellect and insight. Most certainly, buying a brand new tonally and materially inferior guitar ensures brand loyalty. Spending within one's budget on a far superior instrument will deter one from seeking out that same brand when one is ready to upgrade. What do I know, having started with used Ovations and ultimately buying 2 brand new Adamas. I stand corrected.
CLICK |
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Location: Yalova/Turkey | Hmm, I guess I will stand corrected soon enough as well. The reason is: I don´t understand why the Korean worker will not spend his money on an US-product. And I don´t understand another point either: The Western world and most of all the USA did built their huge economies on new inventions, not on protectionist trade. If you don´t come up with new inventions, others will copy the existing ones and may produce cheaper and also with better quality. No use in crying about that. No use in protectionism (which was most thru all its history fought by the official policy of the USA as far as I know). Be inventive and innovative again, and you´ll prosper again. This is also true for Germany (where I come from) and for all other European countries, so don´t think this is some kind of anti-americanism. We all got a bit too comfortable during the last 50 years or so... |
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Elite AX?
