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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | 9/13/09
Slipkid Manifesto revisited
As the author of the much and recently referred to piece I thought after three years I might revisit it.
At the time it was written there was turmoil and concern (or perhaps growing pains), about the direction we were heading. Excessive profanity, adult content and some politics were the issues of the day. Having been here though the beginning, middle and end of that era I can say that those issues were addressed and board wide changes were made.
With all the emphasis about the parts of the manifesto that say “don’t, stop it, cut it out” there are less referenced parts about not wanting to loose the thing that made the OFC so special in the first place. We did not and do not want to loose the edginess that, as professed by all, was not to be found elsewhere.
A minor course correction, a little moderation, a little forethought, and a dose of tolerance were all that was asked or required.
Today we are seeing another round of growing pains.
To my great dismay I have seen our own members draw the line and divide the OFC into “old guard” and “new guard”. It leaves a bitter taste in my mouth to use these terms myself but for the sake of clarity, I’ll us them here. The course correction called for was meant to accommodate what is now termed the “new guard”. The “old guard” was being asked to show a little moderation, respect, and tolerance. THEY responded. Now the “new guard” picks out the “don’t, stop it, cut it out” parts of the manifesto and ignores the conclusive statement about not wanting the OFC to loose it edge.
So in as much as the original manifesto took the “old guard” to the woodshed, allow me, IMHO address, the “new guard”.
For a group that professes tolerance, understanding, forgiveness and acceptance, you’re not putting on a very good showing. It’s a big, diverse, complicated world out there. We all have our own spectrum of ideas, lifestyles and opinions and each spectrum has it own idea of where the middle ground lies. If I choose to interact with the big, wide world that the internet offers, and want to enjoy the experience, one needs to realize that they're going to run into those different moral and believe parameters and accept them. I don’t have to change mine. I don’t have to take it upon myself to change theirs. If I don’t like it, or if they don’t like it, I can move on and find someplace more aligned with my own personal spectrum.
We are who we are. And hopefully we are content with who we are. But we don’t have to be everything that makes up who we are ALL THE TIME.
When I’m at work, I bring the parts of who I am that matters to the job. Husband, father, musician, writer of manifestos, is way, far down the list of things I am between 9 & 5.
When I come to the OFC I am….
#1) A fan of Ovation guitars
2) A fan of music
3) Wanting to share these personal traits with others who feel the same.
#’s 4) 5) 6) thu 15) are all variations a combinations of the first three.
Like the manifesto stated, If 85% of your postings is not about the top three topics, maybe you should be someplace else. And be grateful. That 85% is very generous compared with other forums.
Perhaps it should be revised to include overall content…. such as signature lines.
Over many years and over many, many posts…. and because the moderators have allowed a certain amount of leeway in what we post, long standing members might know more about each other beyond being a fan of Ovations and music. This information is past along in dribs and drabs on the board or perhaps in big chucks at face to face gatherings. But IMO, it should always be secondary to the basic function of OFC.
In conclusion, IMHO, to those whose want to label and divide the OFC into “new guard” and “old guard” and can’t make the stretch to accept that beyond Ovation guitars and music, which is all that should matter, people might be coming from a different place… Don’t,… stop it,… cut it out. |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | edit:
I just realized that I myself used the terms "old guard" and "new guard" three years ago.
But I think you'll admit that the current useage carrys a different flavor and intent. |
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Joined:
November 2007
Posts: 1486
Location: Cincinnati | Great post, Brad. I had a misunderstanding not too long ago because I didn't know the "Old Guard" very well and what the OFC was about. I took their comments as being personal. Fortunately a couple of them communicated to me and gave me a much better understanding of how they looked at things and did things here. We are all different and need to accept it. |
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Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 4536
Location: Flahdaw | I hope the "85%" suggestion is never enforced. My favorite part of the forum is reading the smart-assed, non-guitar related, replies to posts from members like Weaser, Moody, Waskel, Slipkid, etc. In fact, if it was enforced, we never hear from Weaser again (well, maybe that's okay)
The problem with the "old guard/ new guard" designation is that it doesn't really apply to most of the forum members. I am a "newbie", but I don't want to be a "guard" of anything on this forum. I'm not a religious, political, overly patriotic, gun-carrying, wild-eyed American crazy man (new guard :) ) Likewise, I'm not a foul-mouthed, god-hating, ex-hippie, drug dealing heathen (old guard/ Weaser). It's the old 80/20 rule, you know, most of us are in the 80%.
Like the MAJORITY of us on the forum, we come here for information when we need it, but mostly for fun. I don't know about this shift from the old guard to the new guard....I mean, who determined anyone to be "outcasts?" (Again, I'm new, so maybe it happened before my time) There are a few posters with numbers between 1 and 1000, but not many. Did the others really leave because they were disgusted with the direction of the forum, or did their life circumstances just change?
Thanks Slipkid for all the work on the manifesto and I hope it settles things down. |
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Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Brad, that's beautiful. A truely amazing piece of work. Complete jibberish, and totally irrelevant, but none the less well written.
Ok, that was a joke. You and I (as well as most of the old guard as you call it) have taken our discussions off-board so you already know how I feel. The manifesto and the 85% and all that is perfectly fine. But what about the guy who has no interest in talking about ovation guitars but comes here because he wants to meet up with his friends (who may or may not want to talk about guitars). They want to enjoy the push and pull of sharp witted humor just like they did in the old days. Sorry Brad, but I have no interest in going to the corner pub to chat with my friends about ... the corner pub. So there you go. |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | Good point.
And put in that perspective, I totally agree.
Now.. how can we make that happen?
Or... how do we bring that back?
About the guy you mentioned... the guy that is all talked out about music... I know a guy like that on the board. An even so I'd say the great majority of his posts still fit into the format.
Great guy to... you should meet him. |
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Joined:
November 2006
Posts: 2241
Location: Simpsonville, SC | Old Guard? New Guard?
Is there a special link to join these groups? |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | " But what about the guy who has no interest in talking about ovation guitars but comes here because he wants to meet up with his friends (who may or may not want to talk about guitars). "
That's what the Social Network is for, not the forums which is "supposed" to be a source of information.
And Gallerinski, please don't take offense to this, it's not meant that way.. but you're not anywhere near what most would refer to as "old guard." I'm not sure where the line is really... I would hope there isn't a line, but I'm pretty sure most "founding members" (that just sounds better), have more than 4 digits in their post count by now and a member number less than 4 digits as well.
and I guess therein lay my point. If you can't measure it... does it exist?
The Ovation Fan Club has NOT changed over the years..... It has ALWAYS been about the guitars, with some breathing room for banter. There have always been people that just don't understand that. Need to define and line, puch a line, whatever. Just Jump to the General Postings list. 90% (maybe more I didn't count) is actually about Ovation Guitars. The "manifesto" was not written to ADD or TAKE AWAY anything... SLipKid didn't have to "come up with rules" it was just putting into words what was envisioned and existed all along... just never written down. |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Yah, newb. :p |
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December 2006
Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast |  |
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March 2005
Posts: 12761
Location: Boise, Idaho | Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
And Gallerinski, please don't take offense to this, it's not meant that way.. but you're not anywhere near what most would refer to as "old guard." I'm not sure where the line is really... I would hope there isn't a line, but I'm pretty sure most "founding members" (that just sounds better), have more than 4 digits in their post count by now and a member number less than 4 digits as well. You mean like about 13000 posts and member number 269 or so?
I know I'm still a newbie who just posts too much. |
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Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | it's more fun to treat him as a newbie. |
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May 2008
Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | For the record ...
The very reason I QUIT at 5000 posts, and quit AGAIN after 10,000 posts was for the exact reason that I didn't WANT to be "old guard". I wanted to prove that "new guard" could be just as cutting, just as edgy, just as knowledgable, etc. Knowledgable still seems to have a place here, that's good. Cutting and edgy, I guess not. For the record I use dAddario EJ16. Any else just use the search function. |
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March 2002
Posts: 15682
Location: SoCal | A real putz..... |
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May 2008
Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | I used to own one of those. |
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January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | EJ16s.....
Yeah, the old guard uses EJ17s. |
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May 2008
Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Marketing spew. |
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August 2002
Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | The old guard woulda called it marketing spoo. |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Search function? |
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December 2005
Posts: 109
Location: Alabama | can someone please, please, please tell me how to post a picture? |
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April 2008
Posts: 1851
Location: Newington, CT | Who's Member #1? |
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December 2006
Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by bgm2000:
can someone please, please, please tell me how to post a picture? Go to the FAQ and page down to the 17th Q. |
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Joined:
December 2005
Posts: 109
Location: Alabama | Seriously - I have been around for a while but do not post too much. I enjoy all the input from folks with something constructive or informative to offer. Sometimes I enjoy the stuff that is not so informative or constructive. Old guard, new guard whatever - y'all keep on posting and don't take offense easily because life is too short. Dweez can probably tell me who said "Music is the Best!!" other people might know" Meet the old boss, same as the new boss." I get a great deal of pleasure and knowledge from this forum. Sometimes people get offended or upset here as elsewhere in life. Play it! - another good quote or admonition - whether it be your own music or some other persons. PMs are great for extended discussions with someone either on or off topic. Phone calls are great. I just want to say thanks to the whole board, moderators, members, newbies, oldies whoever... I will come back tomorrow or a few days from now to learn something else. |
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December 2005
Posts: 109
Location: Alabama | I shoulda used a wink on the first one, it was a lame joke |
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December 2006
Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by bgm2000:
a wink Ya never know 'round here...  |
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Manifesto Revisted
