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 OT: Bad news from Columbus
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| Forums Archive -> The Vault: 2004-2005 | Message format | |
Paul Wag |
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Joined: December 2002 Posts: 939 Location: Fort Worth, Texas | Pantera (subsequently Damageplan)was a "local band that made it big" from here in Arlington. I wasn't a fan of thiers, don't know that much about them aside that they were a major force in local and national "Heavy Metal" scene. It's a f***ing shame... Three articles in todays Fort Worth paper talk about the shooting and about "Dimebag" Darrell: Star Telegram Front Page | ||
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| leftovertion |
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Joined: July 2004 Posts: 338 Location: Omaha | Anonymity has it's privileges. ;) | ||
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| musicamex |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 873 Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | i like what i have read about the netherlands on a number of socio-political issues. i would really like to spend a couple of months there someday to see it first hand again. i was there in 67, and only traveled in the student, hippie circles. i had lots of fun and ate the flattest pancakes ever. to me what seems to be the issue at hand is a complicated combination of the letter of the law, the spirit of the law, and enforcement of the law. the letter begins with a 200 year old constitution where the intention or spirit had more to do with freedom and liberty. since then firearms have been used as the ultimate lever and final solution for almost everything from putting meat in the freezer to chilling the guy that cut you off on the freeway. need a car? why work and save? jerk some poor mf out of his ride and cancel his title by capping him. here, where the stereotype image is of gun toating banditos, rifles are allowed on a farm, or for hunting. shotguns with a permit. handguns seem to be a grey area in the home of a mexican and almost impossible for a foriegner in their home. on new years eve on my farm (very rural old mexico in san luis potosi) there were many 6 round big caliber rapid fire sequences, just to make an obvious point as well as celebrate. the local officials look the other way. but just get caught with one bullet in your car and you are in major trouble. add a little "i know my rights" to the conversation, and you had better have allot of available cash or like tortillas, because you will likely be eating them for years. since i own a boat i have a legal 25mm magnesium flare gun. if i had to use it for other than it's intended use, a white hot ball of fire coming at the one in 1000 crooks that didn't run, even if it missed the first time would change their perspective about easy money. i doubt i will ever have to use it as the locals have seen it in action for a fiesta or two. on the street the several branches of the police don't want any armed competition and are beyond tough. they enforce the law so far beyond what is legally allowed, an offender that could still see straight would have to be nuts to do it again. the trials are usually pleas of guilty. and if the criminal fires shots it is rare there is even the need for a trial. a three time offender (burglar) made the mistake of getting drunk and saying he wasnt afraid of the cops and would shoot one. no one has seen him in over a year. at the same time the judicial system here is FAR from ideal. therein is allot of the differences in the usa. laws are riddled loopholes for the criminal who often have more rights than the victim. the police and the courts are at war wearing mittens and blindfolds. the officer who took out dimebags killer did us all a favor. i hope he isn't accused of using excessive force. alcohol here is another story. it is pervasive, and at the worst lands you in dirty cell for the night, and relieves you of the dillema of what you were going to spend the money in your pockets on. alcohol doesn't present a threat to the police,(they are notorius party animals) so it isn't usually enforced as a crime until someone gets hurt. the head of the federales in our district, (mexicos well known guys in mirrored sunglasses and black patrol cars), would hang with us at our local club/bar where i play. he sang a short set with us backing him up regularly. actually good if you like romantica. we would at times have a dozen cops with their chavas and chelas at hand till long after closing, running up and paying huge tabs. anyone who took the time to introduce themselves, share a copita and remember a few names did wonders for their stay in mexico. a saying here goes---"mexico, so far from god and so close to the otro lado (usa)". defining the boundaries of anything anywhere, has kept the blacksmiths busy making weapons is what keeps lawyers and politicians in the chips deciding how and when a weapon can be used. from knives to nukes, it comes with the american dream it seems. | ||
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| Bailey |
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Joined: May 2002 Posts: 3005 Location: Las Cruces, NM | As Russ has said It don't make a shit what kind of laws are passed, what kind of great ideas are imagined, on the street, heat will be carried. The man who killed "Dimebag" was a certifiable crazy who thought they had stolen his songs. No amount of metal detectors will save us from the singular crazy, a little thought about the provocation of some music might save some lives, but that would deprive some drooling idiots of their reason to live (there is a French phrase for this but I won't quote it) The man was a flaming example of the desire of many of our losers to be famous like their musical heroes. This man killed his. | ||
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| Brian T |
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Joined: May 2003 Posts: 425 Location: SE Michigan | The great myths of the NRA and gun nuts: (1) You can never get all the guns off the streets, the existing laws don’t work, so don’t bother trying. This is like saying people are going to die anyway so why have doctors and hospitals, or like saying people are still going to hit each other once in a while so lets legalize assault. (2) We need the guns to protect us from a corrupt government: I have served in the U.S. Military and I have seen their weapons. I don’t care if you are the best –armed cornfield militiaman out there, you don’t stand a chance against the U.S. Armed forces. If they want to take you out, you are gone, no matter how well armed you are. And you don’t see the governments of the Canadians, British, Dutch, etc., etc., etc, running amok and abusing their citizens. (3) Criminals will use knives, swords, clubs, etc. to kill people. If I am approached in dark parking lot by a fifteen-year-old crack head with a knife, I might get hurt or even killed but I at least stand a fighting chance. If the same kid approaches me with a 9mm, I am as good as dead. On stage I could fend off any knife-wielding fan using a Telecaster or a Legend or a mic stand, and I might even kill him first. Again against a gun you don’t stand a chance. (4) Its all about personal responsibility, guns don’t kill people, people kill people: The problem with personal responsibility is that not all persons are responsible. You may be sane and trustworthy with a gun, but just read the newspapers to hear about all the crazy people who cant seem to control themselves. Also, let the record reflect that I own two hunting shotguns, so I am not anti-gun. Guns are tools with a purpose and can be used safely. But this country is out of control with guns. I think our Government should offer $1000 no-questions asked for every illegal gun turned into the police and destroyed. Maybe that would start to put a dent in the guns on the street. Paying a $1000 up front would be cheaper than suffering with and paying for the carnage that they inflict. And for those who want to legally own guns, they should have to license the weapon and themselves and renew the license annually, just like an automobile. They should also be required to demonstate that they are still sane and compentent and havent gone off the deep end by having a letter from their doctor. You have to do this to pilot an airplane. Also I think it would be great to require a liabilty insurance policy in case you hurt someone, just like your automobile. | ||
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| moody, p.i. |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 15677 Location: SoCal | I'm not going to get into this one except to say that I disagree with Brian, feel that he's slanting his statements to suite his purposes (hey, we all do to one degree or another), and that most of his points aren't valid. I gotta go work, but I'll go into detail if anybody wants me to when I get back. But having said that, let's talk about guitars instead. I have no problem disagreeing with people that I'd be happy to sit down and jam with. Hey Brian, what are you working on musically these days? | ||
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| Brian T |
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Joined: May 2003 Posts: 425 Location: SE Michigan | Paul, sorry if my post sounded like a rant or is off topic. It's hard to just focus on guitars after the constant stream of tragedies. The internet is the new town square of our era, and I feel compelled to speak out. As important as things like pickups, strings, ebay auctions, and slot head guitars are, I hope I can at least influence some people with some common sense. Tragedies like Dimebag's murder, the Wisconsin Deer Hunter massacre, Columbine high school, The Washington DC sniper, the murder of John Lennon, not to mention the continuous “minor” tragedies that occur almost daily in every state of this union, compel me to speak out. I am outraged and hope others are as well. This insanity will not stop until more of us become outraged. Also the freedom of speech is our most important right, not to speak out would truly be un-American. Musically, Slipkid and I are practicing weekly, trying to add songs to our set. We have been doing open mics, but maybe soon we want to do a whole show. I figure we need 40 or so well rehearsed songs, we have maybe 12 now. I also started voice lessons to help improve my singing; I will provide feedback later on how well that works out. Thanks for asking. | ||
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| musicamex |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 873 Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | i didn't want to see this become a gun debate, and appoligize if my posts led it in that direction. what we do with our guitars can lead us in many directions and can become part of a socio/polical statement. you need to be aware of the risks of the path you take and where it leads. | ||
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| Mr. Ovation |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7236 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | well put Russ | ||
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| musicamex |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 873 Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | thank you Miles. brian, re: "Musically, Slipkid and I are practicing weekly, trying to add songs to our set. We have been doing open mics, but maybe soon we want to do a whole show. I figure we need 40 or so well rehearsed songs, we have maybe 12 now. I also started voice lessons to help improve my singing; I will provide feedback later on how well that works out. Thanks for asking." to do 3 sets (30 3-4min songs) a 40 song list is a good number to start with to mix the pot a bit from week to week. we have found however in a couple of our groups that you should have a core of songs to which the audience responds to your group in a positive fashion with regularity, a rotating number of stock songs that changes every performance, and most importantly new material every week that becomes part of an expanding base. get to know your audience and carefully calculate how to construct your sets. an after dinner set will be vastly different from a happy hour set which will be vastly different from a crowd that is dancing before last call. even then you have to be prepared to read their reactions and change your game plan on the spot. we have it allot easier here in vacation land. we have a constantly rotating crop of people here to have fun and that have left their pressures behind. give them a sunset dinner on the beach, a couple of margaritas and what follows is usually well received without as much planning. it's the regulars, permanent residents and snow birds that keep us on our toes. | ||
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| moody, p.i. |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 15677 Location: SoCal | Brian, your comments didn't bother me. I just disagree with some of your conclusions. Good people can always disagree and discuss and still feel passionate. We both have that in common. We should be able to sit down over a few beers and discuss, disagree, and discuss some more. Then hit the really important topic of how do we explain to our wives that they need to come down and take us home. Where are you getting the tunes for your set list? Cliff has the list of tunes that he and his partner choose from and it's a pretty good list. You ought to check it out on their webpage http://www.twomangroup.net/ Also, let us know how the voice lessons go. I've often thought of doing that but I've had too many people tell me that you can't shine shit. | ||
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| Brian T |
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Joined: May 2003 Posts: 425 Location: SE Michigan | Songs we have ready: Tequilla Sunrise (Eagles) Get Together (Jesse Collin Young) Kids are Alright (Who) Mrs. Brown (Herman's Hermits) Crazy Love (Van Morrison) Happy Together (Turtles) Ticket to Ride (Beatles) The Wieght (The Band) Wonderfull Tonight (Eric Clapton) Country Roads (John Denver) Cant get it out of my head (Jeff Lynn) We are working on: Looking out my back door (CCR) Nature's Way (Spirit) I'll be back (Beatles) We try to add three or four a month. We both have day jobs so this is just a hobby. Half the battle is finding songs that suit our singing and playing abilities. But we are getting tight, crisp beginnings and endings, harmony vocals, different guitar parts. Maybe by summer we'll have enough for a full show. | ||
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| xbj |
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Joined: June 2003 Posts: 194 Location: Las Vegas | Originally posted by moody, p.i.: Rap and hip hop tends to glorify violence. Jazz, blues and country don't. Know your audience. You tend to reap what you sow... whatever anyone can say about this music, it certainly has glorified crime and violence, and no one ever died at any of the so-called rock and roll "riots" at 50's shows. And even when rock "killed" in the 70's and 80's, it was because of promotor greed and lousy crowd control. Live by the sword... die by the sword. If rap and hiphop want to make their fortunes off glorifying the gangsta lifestyle, its purveyors have to and should be ready to pay the price. It just goes with the territory. These guys should be immune when John Lennon dies from violence? Leslie Bell | ||
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| musicamex |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 873 Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | hey brian, you have a great start on a songlist that is going to appeal to a pretty broad spectrum of listeners. what type of venue do you have in mind? if you are able to add 3 new rehearsed songs a week that is way better than we seem to be able to do, though the club owner and lead singer has a pretty big bag of surprises he springs on us at any time. crisp starts and solid endings, especially the latter makes a pretty solid statement about your commitment. you are taking a commendible approach. philo's, where i play the most always has a changing mix of musicians after the first set. it has become known as the place to jam in our area. it is a great practice in listening and working to maintain the groove. i play allot of rhythm and use easily identifiable chord shapes on changes to help keep things smoother. maybe someday you will find yourself headed this way for some r&r. don't bother bringing a guitar. i have a few that will probably feel familar, and jam with us. where in michigan are you from? | ||
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| Brian T |
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Joined: May 2003 Posts: 425 Location: SE Michigan | To Russ, we will probably just do a few coffee house type gigs, maybe a party or something here or thier. Again it's just a hobby, but it is a lot of fun. To Leslie, nobody deserves 5 slugs in the face for expressing even unpopular ideas. Should Steven Segal, Arnold Schwartzenegger , Clint Eastwood also be shot for making violent movies? Didn’t John Lennon compose “Happiness is a warm Gun? Sometimes I think I would like to see the promoters of violent video games meet some of their most loyal deranged young customers in a dark parking lot one night as well, but this kind of thinking just adds to the madness. People in this country need to face the fact that there are a lot of crazy people out there, and short of Hitler-style fascism there is nothing we can do about them. Most would agree that the number of crazies is growing, the real question becomes; do you want the crazies to have guns? | ||
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| moody, p.i. |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 15677 Location: SoCal | Actually, the real question is "Do you want only the crazies to have guns?" In England, they took away all guns from law abiding citizens and violent crime has sky rocketed. In the U.S., in states where people can get concealed carry permits, violent crime has dropped. Nobody ever talks about the several hundred thousand times per year that guns are used successfully in self defense. | ||
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| Brian T |
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Joined: May 2003 Posts: 425 Location: SE Michigan | The problem with guns as a self defense argument is that not everybody will be capable of owning or defending themselves with a gun. Was Dimebag supposed to be packin heat as he ripped off lead solos? What about the dozen-odd students at Columbine cowering under desks in the library, while Dillian Kliebold and Eric Harris walked from desk to desk popping off rounds under the tables. One of those kids had cerebral palsey and was severely disabled. Do you expect these kids to defend themselves with their own gun? Get real. What about the Wisconsin Deer Hunters? They were armed with high-powered rifles and still eight of them died. Again I don’t begrudge you the right to own a gun, but dammit there has to be some sanity and some safety mechanisms to at least try to keep guns out of the hands of lunatics. And if that inconvienices gun owners a bit, too bad. Nobody seems to mind all the bullshit required to own a car. And I realize that a few crazies will allways manage to get through, but I would prefer to have at least a few less crazies running around with guns. Also I suspect that the 100,000 crimes prevented with guns is a myth, where does that statistic come from? There have been over 30,000 fatalities in the U.S. in each of the last four years due to gun crimes, not to mention hundreds of thousands of suicides and injuries resulting in ruined lives. And Americans are pissed off about 3000 lives lost on 9/11? | ||
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| an4340 |
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Joined: May 2003 Posts: 4389 Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Point of order: Lennon's Happiness is a warm gun, should not be taken literally. It was not about a gun, it was about ... oh never mind ... Bang Bang Shoot Shoot. | ||
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| Slipkid |
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Joined: September 2003 Posts: 9301 Location: south east Michigan | It's a shame that both sides of the gun control issue have to be so radical in the debate. A common sense solution lies somewhere in the middle. There was a time when there was no such thing as a speed limit law. As society evolves, corrective measures are sometimes needed. Even in such a freedom loving country as the U.S. | ||
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| Beal |
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Joined: January 2002 Posts: 14127 Location: 6 String Ranch | There are speed limits on the roads? Is that why everyone drives so slow? | ||
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| Slipkid |
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Joined: September 2003 Posts: 9301 Location: south east Michigan | Quote W2: "You mean there are speed limits on the roads?" See what I mean? ;) | ||
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| xbj |
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Joined: June 2003 Posts: 194 Location: Las Vegas | Originally posted by Brian T: To Leslie, nobody deserves 5 slugs in the face for expressing even unpopular ideas. Should Steven Segal, Arnold Schwartzenegger , Clint Eastwood also be shot for making violent movies? Didn’t John Lennon compose “Happiness is a warm Gun? In most movies by the folks you mentioned, they're the "good guys" who get the "bad guys." I can count on one hand the ones in which the "bad guys" win. In gansta rap, the "bad guys" consistently win... that's a major difference, and it represents an enormous paradigm shift that does not bode well for society. And Lennon's "warm gun" was his penis. I never said he deserved what he got. I said "You reap what you sow" and if you're going to get rich and famous SELLING violence, be prepared to die that way, and don't be surprised when only a handful that knew you were a big phony, what a "wonderful person you really were, etc. etc.") cry. In my book, hypocrites that promote and push violence and don't partake are worse than those that live it, because it's our kids getting shot in the streets, not theirs. Maybe everytime this happens it makes some kid somewhere really sit down and think. Les | ||
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| moody, p.i. |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 15677 Location: SoCal | Mine is not a "warm gun". It's the Mighty Python of Love!!! aka "Mr. Happy". We gotta lighten this thread up and talk some guitars. Has anybody remembered that Al is making some sort of announcment of Wednesday? | ||
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| Nils |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 1380 Location: Central Oregon | Am I the only old fart on here that had never heard of this Dopebag Darrel character before this thread started? re: Guns, I'm with Moody. | ||
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| cruster |
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Joined: May 2004 Posts: 2850 Location: Midland, MI | I'm not an old fart (at least I don't think so...but maybe that's an indication that I am...huh) and I had no idea who he was, although I have heard the name. I only vaguely recall 'Pantera' (I think I read somewhere that was the first band he was in) but couldn't name any of their songs. Guns...own several, don't have any problem controlling them...or access *to* them. I submit that society pays more for smoking related issues than firearm related issues (illness, death, etc.). So, ask yourself, why *do* the gubbermint subsidize the tobacco industry? Oh, and yes, I smoke...generally cigars (good Dominican's are like a sore...er, are very good) but occasionally those horrible cigarettes. Just so's nobody goes calling me no hippy-crit. Python, eh? I've only ever heard 'tree trunk o' love' but...nah, nevermind. Now, say, I pulled a remote admin/proggy job off and have added a handsome (not) amount to my guitar fund. Anyone have anything intersting for sale? I can resist anything but temptation... :D | ||
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