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 Surf's Up!!!
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| Forums Archive -> The Vault: 2002-2003 | Message format | |
moody, p.i. |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 15686 Location: SoCal | Hologram: Glad to have you here, but please check your politics at the door. However, ALL opinions (civil) on guitars are welcome. | ||
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| Beal |
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Joined: January 2002 Posts: 14127 Location: 6 String Ranch | 10-4 on that thought moodypeeeye. two things going on here. 1. The MOB and the Tegement. I think these guitars are a steaming pile of.... well you've all heard that speech before. OK, so we old guys hate them. That's fine as long as the kids love them. That's the question that needs to be answered and I think the jury's still out. 2. What is the company doing for us old guys? You know the answer, nothing! I just bought two brazilian Collings. Where is the Ovation equlivent? Do they have a $10,000 guitar in their line up? Of course they don't. How about a $5000? Not. Are there people out there who will spend that much for a guitar? Of course there are. How are they ever going to get the Ovation message to this segment of the market? They're not. One of the major problems facing KMC is this lowest common denominator marketing thinking. Ovation is a Mercedes. At least that's what the original concept was. The Adamas was the AMG. It has been treated as a Volkswagon for so long now that the results are starting to show. It is being thought of as a volkswagon by the consumers and dealers. It's not a high end guitar anymore. It's too bad, it was there once. | ||
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| alpep |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 10583 Location: NJ | when I was a kid I was (and probably still am) a very picky eater. My father would call everything chicken no matter if it was pork, beef, turkey, fish etc and I would eat it and be happy. I think once we get older and we can determine that it is not all chicken but there are different flavors and we can like or dislike them that is when we decide what to buy for ourselves. Maybe some of the kids looking at the MOB and tangent will think it is chicken and found out years later it is something else and go out and seek that Adamas. But at least they tasted it. does this make sense? sorry if it dosen't | ||
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| Mr. Ovation |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7247 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Al, it makes PERFECT sence. Only problem, and this is MY first hand information. When I learned they all weren't "chicken" I decided that A slothead is in my future.... uh... ok... how about an Adamas juut like Nancy..... uh... ummm... ok how about an Adamas II... well... ok I found one (thanks AL). I think you get me point and the point CWK was also making. Why oh Why isn't the "top of the line" at least available and marketed as a Custom or "special order". I know we talked offline on this, and I am no PRS fan, BUT....they have the Dragon at least. As they swerve off into the land of imported guitars, they still have that $25,000 Dragon to prove they still can make a "real" guitar. Ovation needs to have a flagship guitar, and I find it odd that the marketing folks haven't lept on this. The Q should be in the catalog with a price, and a waiting list "special price". The Slothead and Adamas should both be in the catalog as "special order" items. There is certainly nothing-lost, nothing gained to have them listed especially if they are going to cost so much that it pays to actually make them. I know another guitar company this is still taking custom orders (sorry I can't print the name) for a guitar that they can't make probably for another couple of years if at all. And people are giving them MONEY TOO (I was one of them). sorry for the rant. | ||
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| alpep |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 10583 Location: NJ | I sold this guitar it was built for someone on a custom order and they decided not to pick it up. Notice the headstock? slothead...Well it looks like a folklore neck with an overlay that says adamas textured woven top and wide fingerboard. I will tell you I regret everyday selling that guitar but that is why I am in business to sell guitars. Anyway I had that guitar a couple of years ago so If you order it they will build it. Not quite a slot head by the traditional standard but damn close. | ||
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| Legend-LX-Fan |
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Joined: November 2002 Posts: 1196 Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | CWK2 you are right on as usual. That MOB is one ulgy piece of crap! I can not get over it. It says one thing to me:CHEAP LOOKING!!!! I am amazed that someone at Ovation thought we have to make that. DAMN, who comes up with these ideas? Can anyone get a job at Ovation and design terrible guitars? I don't know what is going on here, but with guitars like this, the competition must be some happy. Paul Hebert | ||
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| Beal |
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Joined: January 2002 Posts: 14127 Location: 6 String Ranch | 1687Paul I explained this once before but it probably needs redefining. You say "How could Ovation design this spoo?" They might not have. You think of Ovation as a company. It isn't. It's just a product line. The company is Kaman Music Corporation. This company has many product lines, big ones too. Hamer, Takamine, Latin Percussion, Gretch Drums, Sabian Cymbals, Hohner harps, etc, etc. Ovation is a factory in New Hartford. KMC also has them made in several other countries, usually determined by their production costs and quality capabilities. The Ovation factory makes guitars. Kaman Music Marketing Provides the direction on what to build. Is there interaction between the factory R&D department and KMC marketing, yes. How much, I don't know. I would guess that much more direction of what to build comes from KMC now than it did years ago. So back to the question "Who designed this spoo?" Now you've got two choices. Maybe someone could find out on the up comming trip to mecca. | ||
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| Legend-LX-Fan |
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Joined: November 2002 Posts: 1196 Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Ok, I adjust my question. How can Kaman Corporation design such an ugly piece of crap as teh MOB?....Paul Hebert | ||
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| Mr. Ovation |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7247 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | One man's crap is another's treasure. I really like it. It's got a theme, it's rather well built, it's just plain cool. There I said it. Is it as nice as an Adamas... well... apples and oranges. Adamas is not supposed to look like a surfers guitar you take to the beach, and an MOB isn't supposed to look like a classic handmade instrument. I think it's great that Ovation makes something for everyone. If they just made the Adamas, we sould have no need for this board, as they would be out of buisness. | ||
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| Legend-LX-Fan |
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Joined: November 2002 Posts: 1196 Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Well I think if Ovation continues to release guitars as horrible as this MOB thing, they will put themselves out of business....Paul Hebert | ||
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| stonebobbo |
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Joined: August 2002 Posts: 8307 Location: Tennessee | SHEESH ... give it a rest. Ovation has always been the guitar company who wasn't afraid to try something different. Why do we want them to become an old-fashioned company who only caters to old farts with nothing better to do than complain about how great things were in the old days (no intentional darts to anyone in particular on this board, except perhaps myself). Does anyone remember the reaction of the purists when Ovation released that gawdawful plastic guitar? Or how about that wierd blue burst thing with the broccoli thing on the headstock and a soundboard made from some sci-fi material? Whether Ovation, or KMC, or some dunce in art school came up the the MOB, there's no doubt that it is the coolest, most far-out acoustic available on the market. I'm with Miles on this one, and I've been watching them on eBay and people are buying them ... believe it or not. And I'm willing to bet they are getting into the hands of people who will move up to an Elite, or Legend, or maybe an Adamas Q at some point. They're better built, and sound better, than probably any other guitar in their price range, including those low-end Martins. And a helluva lot more durable. As for looks ... it's all personal opinion anyway. I hope Ovation keeps pushing the envelope ... if they don't, that's when they'll go out of business. And yeah, I do wish they would find a way to put out a $5000+ guitar, too. | ||
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| ahorsewithnoname |
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Joined: February 2003 Posts: 32 Location: Columbus, Ohio | I like the looks of it. I think they should allow you to customize it with your name splattered on it, or with dolphins jumping out of the water, or palm trees. I'd order a plam tree on one right now and keep it at my Florida condo. I would be the hit of the beach. I am a traditionalist. Own a Taylor. I was tired of having to baby it with perfect humidity levels. Checked out a cheap but new Celebrity for a beater and was amazed at the fit, finish, and quality. Plugged in it rivals most Taylor's. Now I'm a fan and have purchased another Ovation. I only tried it by chance. Really just to prove to myself how pathetic they were. Even the salesman at ## said "you play a Taylor, don't waste you time with this piece of sh##! Ovation needs to get the word out! Now my friends are wanting one since they have played mine. People just need the motivation to try an Ovation!!! I think I'll get one of these MOB"s I'm 48 today, married with 2 teenage kids and a wife. But hey, if i have a chance to impress the girls....I'm buying it!!!!!!! | ||
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| TRboy |
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Joined: February 2003 Posts: 2178 Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | Well said Stonebobbo!! I think the reason we all here have Ovations is because we wanted to be Different,Cool,A Leader,An Inovator,etc Ovations in the '70's were the Fad - But I think (IMHO) we wanted them because it made us feel special-like "Hey look what I'm playing" We didn't follow the "Standard" in guitars,we had the "New" & "Hottest" guitar that made us stand out.(Bowl backs & made of plastic!!-How dare them!) The new MOB is the younger generation's "New" & "Hottest" guitar - Its their turn to play a strange and unusual looking guitar with a round back! Back in the '60's a man name Charlie Kaman sat down and pondered..."How can I make a guitar that's DIFFERENT?"...... Mike :confused: | ||
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| Legend-LX-Fan |
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Joined: November 2002 Posts: 1196 Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | I will not give it a rest. I am not an old fart, well maybe a young fart (lol). But what I am is a lifelong Ovation fan who wonders what the hell the company is doing releasing crap like the MOB. Sure we can talk about the "Surf" crowd. I guess I didn't realize there was such a demand for guitars in the surfing community. Geez, surf crowd? HHHMMMM, let's see. Maybe Ovation can come out with a pink one for the Avon crowd. Are better yet, how about a green one for the "earth" crowd. Pityfull! just plain pityfull. And to think, it says Ovation on the headstock....Paul Hebert | ||
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| Mr. Ovation |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7247 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Paul I really can't seem to figure what rubs you so wrong about THIS guitar. Why are you not so upset about the Celeb line or some of the others that have NO BUISNESS having the Ovation headstock on them. At least this one DOES NOT have the standard Ovation headstock, it's clearly different. There is NO confusing this guitat with an Elite or Adamas like so many people do with the Celeb line. Also to answer some of your questions... You do realize I assume that a LARGE majority of the "surf crowd" these days have bigger balances on their gold and platinum cards then we have on our W-2's.. It is a HUGE industry that I think Ovation was EXTREMly smart in tapping into it. When we say surf crowd, we really are talking the XTREME-sports crowd. Tony Hawk has a travelling surf show that makes any U2 or Kiss concert look like a block party. I am not jumping because of your distain for the MOB, because I respect your opinion, but I don't understand why you seem to tolerate the other imports that have no appearent direction and no appearent reason for exisiting other than to provide a cheap version of good guitars. The MOB actually has a HUGE directed market, where as the other imports have just an "if you can't afford the USA version.... here'ya go" market. I wish they didn't copy the headstock, but I'm also glad they didn't use the standard one. This is the first guitar in years that doesn't blur the import/usa thing, and one of the first to NOT copy the USA line. "what the hell the company is doing releasing crap like the MOB." TO MAKE MONEY!!!! "I guess I didn't realize there was such a demand for guitars in the surfing community." I guess you need hang out at a surf, or at least an extreme sports event. There are usually concerts involved or at least people playing music everywhere. "Maybe Ovation can come out with a pink one for the Avon crowd." Avon, or Tupperwear parties events that draw 10's of 1000's of people and are covered by live TV and made into DVD's and Tapes. Kids with more money than they know what to do with by the 1000's don't use Avon. "how about a green one for the "earth" crowd." They have NO MONEY. Here is a qoute from Activision who chose "the skate crowd" to make a little cash... from July of 2002. "The legendary skateboarder is the keystone of Activision's ambitions to become a $1 billion revenue company within 24 months. Last year, the group's Tony Hawk Pro Skater series was the largest independent U.S. videogame franchise, generating 30 percent of the Santa Monica-based company's revenues. Since its launch, Tony Hawk has generated sales worth more than $400 million." I don't know about you, but I'd love to be a part of an industry that ONE PERSON's company, heck just having his name associates, can generate 400 million in revenue. That's not even the whole industry, that's just attaching one persons name to the product from the industry. Sorry for the rant... but I guess the short more proper answer to your question is simple. WHy? Because there is potention for FREE MONEY and LOTs OF IT!!! By the way, I put my money where my mouth is and ordered my MOB tonight. | ||
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| hologram |
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Joined: March 2003 Posts: 12 Location: australia | sorry if i offended anyone but my comment wasn't political it was relating to corporate-greed and economic-slavery. (not actual slave countries). america makes the best guitars in the world and should continue to do so but now they are competing against the budget asian copy markets that they actualy created (frankenstrat). fender put out a usa built budget strat (highway 1) to compete against the asian strat and it sounded bad, this is a dangerous lowering of the yard-stick. i agree that the asian productions do look and feel good but the electrics are terible and as the budget asian copies are aimed at the beginer player, the beginer gives up learning the guitar believing the bad sound is due to their ability not knowing the electrics are letting them down. i know people will disagree with me but atleast it's my honest comment. | ||
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| Mr. Ovation |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7247 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Hologram, good points. I think the only reason US companies pay foriegn companies, espeically Korea to make guitars is to meet the price point. I don't think you can make a 500 dollar guitar in the states unless you hire an entire "cheap labor" force to do it, and then who knows what you would come up with. As you said, Fender tried and look what happened. They do have some new USA Fenders, that aren't bad, but... I'm kinda thinking a strat copy from Warmoth, Ibanez or Carvin is a better buy at that point. It's just simple math. As far as the electronics go, I may be wrong, but on an Ovation... I think the imports and USA model electronics are the same. | ||
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| alpep |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 10583 Location: NJ | Hologram when I started playing guitar years ago my parents bought me a budget guitar of the day. It was an acoustic guitar made in Holland and it was not playable and had horrible action. I think this thing cost them around $100 and it was a poor excuse for a guitar. It is amazing I even learned how to play. Currently the guitars made in Asia as VERY good. They are playable they are real insturments. If you do not learn how to play guitar now it is because you did not want to learn not because the instrument was a total piece of junk. Because of the cost of the USA made guitars makers are have been going to other sources for at least 30 years now to build student instruments. It is a good thing becuase the average person cannot start out buying a Les Paul for 2K as his high school present like I did when that same Les Paul was $319. I do not think the current imports discourge players but encourage them. | ||
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| hologram |
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Joined: March 2003 Posts: 12 Location: australia | cliff; it is an acoustic/electric it has eq and an onboard led chromatic tuner. the body comes in shallow depth and super shallow depth. it's a great looking guitar and if it wasn't korean i would buy one right now. | ||
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| hologram |
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Joined: March 2003 Posts: 12 Location: australia | mr ovation thanks for pointing that out and correcting me reguarding ovation copy electrics but if the woods and the production is not the best, then not even the best electrics will compensate for the overall sound, wouldn't you agree. alpep, i teach guitar and whenever a student or parent of a student says to me "we'll buy a cheap guitar to start out with because our child may give up and we'll waste our money" i discourage this kind of talk and always encourage them to buy the most expensive guitar they can afford. i point out that cheap guitars generaly sound bad they have fret buzz, intonation is wrong, the actions are to high and unchangable , etc etc, i tell them that a properly designed, sounding guitar is much more important in the beging stages. a cheap guitar sounds band, their actions can give you wrist problems, etc and the student has no pride in the instrument. | ||
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| ahorsewithnoname |
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Joined: February 2003 Posts: 32 Location: Columbus, Ohio | Wow, I am new to Ovation and have purchased 2 Celebrity's in the past 30 days. I didn't know the were looked at with so much distain!!! Believe me, these are well put together guitars. My Taylor dealer was amazed. You think when you buy a Ford that you are buying an American car? No way, most of the wiring, parts, and tons of other stuff in them come from asia! I believe an article I read in Business Week last fall said that most so called American cars were actually only about 24.5% American!!! Look at the Honda's, they are made here in Ohio with parts from everywhere. I went to GC last week to purchase a Legend, but sorry to say the CC057 Celebrity sounded much better unplugged and plugged in they sounded the same in a California Blond amp. I bought the Celebrity for $299!!! and had a huge smile on my face when I left! It's a new world old timers with global manufacturing to keep costs in line. Quality is the same if not better. Remember the little Chevy little piece of crap that came out in the 70's to compete with the imports? AMERICAN made with American pride, that thing was a piece of sh##. People found pop bottles in the door wells and all kinds of other crap! That American car was so bad I can't even remember it's name!! Why do you think there are so many imports? Duhh, because they are better. Remember all the advertising about the Oldsmobile Aurora? "This car will not only compete with Mercedes and BMW, it will out do them in their own market!" Well, where is that piece of junk now????? The entire company went under on the hopes of that junker! I own a German car and my kids have Honda's. High quality and they maintain their value. Are some of you driving the wonderful Auroura????? Good Luck! I'll take the MOB and Celebrity anyday! And save my money for something more important. | ||
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| MJM |
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Joined: September 2002 Posts: 12 Location: Bloomfield Ct | If the MOB catches the eye and imagination of the generation of board sports enthusiasts, and gets them playing a roundback, how can that be bad? It surely is slanted to the younger crowd. You know, the folks who buy the vast majority of guitars sold in the world. Today for the young folks image is everything.They tend to link their identity very closely with there hobbies, And they tend to be very "brand" conscious. Get them started on a roundback at a young age, and they just may grow up to be old farts that will spend a few grand on a new Ovation. What needs to be done is the factory needs to get their "spoo" together and design and produce a guitar that is worthy of the Ovation peghead, and a $5000.00 price tag. With the right focus , it can be done. Hell, I have heard plenty of good ideas on this forum. | ||
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| alpep |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 10583 Location: NJ | Hologram I am not sure if you got my point. My point is the quality of the current student model guitar as opposed to the student model guitar of 35-40 years ago is a vast improvement. YOu are right the best guitar affordable by the student is the best instrument. | ||
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| Mr. Ovation |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7247 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Outstanding, and welcome to the board!!! Harley Davidson can't even put the little "Made In USA" sticker on the back of their bikes anymore... but Victory can, so I bought one :) and it was worth it. I was all set to buy a Jaguar last year until I found out it was really made by Ford, that would NOT have been worth it. I also agree that most of the inport Ovations just blow the competitions models away that are twice the price. | ||
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| Paul Templeman |
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Joined: February 2002 Posts: 5750 Location: Scotland | Nameless Horse.....Celebrities are great guitars for the dough. They have the same electronics as some of the US versions and a pickup (CP100 thinline) that was used on some USA models including several collectors editions & the Adamas SMT. They sound fine & are are a great introduction to the Ovation experience. Sound is a very subjective area & if you prefer the sound of your guitar to a Legend or whatever that's fine. BUT, and this is a huge "BUT" The materials & construction methods of the USA models are vastly different, even though the guitars appear superficially very similar (and that's a whole other topic) As a professional player who needs reliabilty & consistency night after night, show after show, with the guitars ridden hard & put away wet, I know the USA guitars are worth the extra. Having said that I think the MOB is cool as F*** and I would certainly own one, Korean or not | ||
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