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Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba CANADA | Well, I said I thought I'd get my ass kicked... Didn't think I was stepping on a landmine!!
OK, to set the record straight (again!!)...
- I have NO vested interest in the Blueberry guitar company (are you f--king kidding me). They are based in St. Laurent, Quebec, which although, is... technically in Canada... anyone that knows anything about North America should know that Quebec might as well be on the moon as far as most Manitobans (or Canadians in general...) are concerned!!
- Secondly, I don't like to see anyone exploited either, but if you think that what you are seeing in that video is anything like the exploitation going on in other parts of the world you are, sadly mistaken... There are places in Africa and Asia where the same scene would include ALL of them being in chains, with guns to their heads... NO ONE would be paid ANYTHING and NO ONE would be allowed to leave!! They would work there in the semi-darkness... until they DIED!! That is SLAVERY.
I am aware that their economy bears no resemblance to ours, but ours used to look a lot like that in the 1840's as well. It might be 2010 here, but for all intents and purposes... it's 1840 there. Would I like to see the workers paid an equitable share of the companies profits... of course I would!! It would eat in to my bottom line, being that I own such a large chunk of the company (tongue firmly in cheek here...), but I digress...
- To whether these guitars are beautiful or ugly, all depends on whether you like Balinese-style carving. Some people LOVE it and others HATE it. I only mentioned Blueberry guitars because I thought, being a Canadian company some of you might not have heard about them. But of course, many of you have them in your substantial collections (or did...) and can give me a lesson on them...
I am humbled once again...
Sorry for mentioning it. Someone said this is a 'guitar forum'... I did get that part right, at least. |
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Location: closely held secret | Al, I have the same problem with products like Nike and Adidas... |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by Waskel:
Al, I have the same problem with products like Nike and Adidas... ... or anything endorsed by Kathy Lee. |
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Location: NJ | Originally posted by Waskel:
Al, I have the same problem with products like Nike and Adidas... agreed and why I have no bought gas from Exxon since the Valdez incident and will no longer buy BP.
It is all about being responsible with your purchases.
Yes this is a guitar forum and yes we have opinions here and yes they may not be the ones you want to hear.
Is this going on with other companies? absolutely.
Show me some proof of it with others and I will absolutely slam their business as well.
This to me is a moral issue not if you like the instruments or not. Personally I can tell you I have played them at Namm and they did not do much for me but that is meaningless. If you like VW and I like BMW who cares they both take you to the store to buy your guitar |
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Location: NJ | I know we have many praise and worship musicians here. Can you play this guitar at a service knowing the way it was built? |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | That's a heavy thought, Al... :eek:
But it also applies to sneakers, sweatshirts, all the T-shirts from Bangladesh, any guitar made in any third-world country including anywhere in Asia (except Japan)...
The only countries that have 'Western' standards are the US, Canada, Australia and some of the countries in Europe.
So when you woke-up this morning... your alarm clock, coffee maker, toaster and microwave were all probably made in a sweat shop in China. (I know mine were) |
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Location: NJ | alarm clock made in US
coffee maker made in germany
toaster made in germany
Microwave made in mexico
Not every company has sweatshops. That is a blanket statement. Please show some proof of that statement.
I am not saying that all working conditions in the world are comparable to the US but there are some that are obviously worse than others. I know that working conditions in Korea are not like the ones shown in the video. How you can make all these statements about these countries? I need more than a statement you need to be able to back this stuff up
I imagine there should be no problem in nude worship if it is sincere. Although some worship sites smay be more pleasing than others. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Not every company has sweatshops...
Not every McDonald's or Walmarts refuse to pay overtime.
As to the sweatshops... I guess it is all a matter of what you are used to.
Most of my jobs suck... That is why they give me money and call it 'Work'...
These guys will make you ANY kind of guitar that you\'d like....
Stack \'em up... Roll \'em out!
Disclaimer... I ain't saying these people ain't well paid, nor that they don't like their jobs.
You do what you've gotta do. And in this worldwide economy, the Asians will usually do it cheaper. But that is only because of the exchange rate of the USD. Once our dollar goes down the toilet we won't be able to afford their stuff and we have no factories to make our own. Then the Germans and the Australians will be complaining about the cheap sweatshop labor in the USA.
[I tried to find my Mom a USA-made alarm clock, but I couldn't find one! :confused: ] |
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast |  |
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Location: NJ | and the tag proves it was made in a sweatshop in what way? |
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Location: Las Vegas, NV | My 2-cents (and it's probably worth less): The workers in the video appear to be working in poor conditions, but do not appear to be "forced" to work here. Therefore, they must have chosen this job over whatever the alternative would have been for them, if there even was an alternative. Could conditions be better? Sure, but this would likely either raise the end price of the product, or cut into the company's profits. Since we have no real proof what the company keeps or pays to its workers (much like the El Salvadorean tag on the t-shirt isn't proof it was made in a sweatshop), it's all speculation. But one thing seems to be likely: if these workers didn't have THIS job, they would have to take a lesser job, or possibly even no job.
So, while we can all agree that this job isn't ideal, it is likely better than the alternatives available to them. |
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Location: Flahdaw | I don't know whether they are made in sweat shops or not, but you would have to beat the hell out of ME before I would own this thing
Blueberry |
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Posts: 1486
Location: Cincinnati | Originally posted by dark bar:
I don't know whether they are made in sweat shops or not, but you would have to beat the hell out of ME before I would own this thing
Blueberry |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Originally posted by dark bar:
I don't know whether they are made in sweat shops or not, but you would have to beat the hell out of ME before I would own this thing
Blueberry |
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by bcoombs:
... it's all speculation. BINGO! |
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Location: Bellevue, Washington | I think it's pretty clear that this is a topic similar to Politics/Religion and in my own opinion I think it's time to drop it. We all have our own opinions about what is right and wrong, and that is the beauty of living in the countries that we do. We are all entitled to our own opinions.
I don't want to imply that free speech should be stifled, or some sort of censorship should be enforced, but can we put a stop to this conversation if for no other reason than to prevent the creation of yet another divide for us to bicker over? Let's keep the friendships friendly here people :) |
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Location: NJ | lets just look at facts.
factory workers
barefoot
no work benches
no safety items
no chairs or benches
no dust collection
so where is the speculation? |
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Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba CANADA | I seem to be a lightning rod for political controversy here, don't I...?
All I did was mention some intricate inlaying and carving I thought some of you might like to see and... BOOM!! I'm a robber baron, capitalist exploiter of the poor barefoot, third world indigents...
Being that I am something of an oddity in Canada, in that my viewpoints are 'somewhat' conservative (but that would probably just make me a Democrat... if I stepped over the border), and I'm pretty dark on socialism and all hippy-dippy-trippy free-spending nonsense that goes along with that...).
I am very much FOR the environment and TOTALLY anti-corporate scumbag (especially the big, American companies that INVENTED that style of doing business...). Al has named some of those already... we ALL know WHO they are.
For the first twenty-odd years of my life, I was a card-carrying member of the New Democratic Party (NDP)... which are lovingly referred to as 'lefty, commie radicals...' by the Republicans in the US (it embarrasses me to admit to that now...). In fact my father was a union organizer for most of his life, which is where I learned that mindset is the 'road to hell', and I now try to avoid it at all costs.
My views are VERY centre-ist and humanist now, so to be painted as some kind of capitalist exploiter by any American is sooooooooo ironic, lol.
For future posts, I will try an experiment... playing the 'devil's advocate' and expressing NOTHING but opinions that any granola-munching lefty would take no exception whatsoever to.
I am willing to bet, that I will still be set upon by ALL the same people (no matter what side of the argument I take...).
Let's play... :D |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Wow, I sure do have a fine collection of Ovations. I think I'll go play one now. |
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Location: Las Vegas, NV | The speculation was that the company was keeping all of the profits and not paying their workers adequate wages. Also, I think it is speculation that these workers don't prefer working without safety equipment, benches, shoes, etc. Much of what I see in the public works construction industry is not preferred by the workers, but is rather forced on the contractor by government beaurocracy, all in the name of "doing something" to "protect" the worker. Some of it is great and necessary. Much of it is a paperwork nightmare that makes a project cost twice what it normally would.
So (with all due respect), if you had your way, would you impose the U.S. system of safety regulations on this Balinese industry, possibly raising the costs to the point where it wouldn't be profitable to keep the business (my speculation now). Then where would these workers be? The less preferable job (as discussed earlier) or unemployed?
Could working conditions be better? Again, yes. But, it's never that cut and dry... |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by Avatar4550:
I seem to be a lightning rod for political controversy here, don't I...? Join the crowd ... |
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Location: South of most, North of few | Think it'll rain? |
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Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba CANADA | Fixin' to rain here I reckon... Good for the crops though, been dry a spell. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by Avatar4550:
My views are VERY centre-ist and humanist now, so to be painted as some kind of capitalist exploiter by any American is sooooooooo ironic, lol. Hey Now! Be careful who you are calling an "American" with that tone-of-keyboard.
Not all Americans are capitalists swine... Just the ones that you see in the media.
Capitalist swine that own the media learned their lesson...
They don't show the radicals on TV anymore.
In Portland there is a little anti-corporate protest every other day.
Then we protest the Police, or the WTO, or for Pot, or just have a free concert in the square! :D |
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Location: NJ | Originally posted by bcoombs:
The speculation was that the company was keeping all of the profits and not paying their workers adequate wages. Also, I think it is speculation that these workers don't prefer working without safety equipment, benches, shoes, etc. Much of what I see in the public works construction industry is not preferred by the workers, but is rather forced on the contractor by government beaurocracy, all in the name of "doing something" to "protect" the worker. Some of it is great and necessary. Much of it is a paperwork nightmare that makes a project cost twice what it normally would.
So (with all due respect), if you had your way, would you impose the U.S. system of safety regulations on this Balinese industry, possibly raising the costs to the point where it wouldn't be profitable to keep the business (my speculation now). Then where would these workers be? The less preferable job (as discussed earlier) or unemployed?
Could working conditions be better? Again, yes. But, it's never that cut and dry... with all due respect DO NOT SPEAK for me I am very capable of doing it myself.
If asking for people to be treated fairly and with some sort of dignity and respect is imposing "us systems of safety regulations" then so be it.
I don't like seat belts yet I am by law forced to wear one. does it save lives sure, does my medical insurance go down because I wear one no.
We can't dump oil from our motor out onto the street without a fine either. but if it leaks out it is ok.
I did not speculate the workers were paid substandard wages for their local wage. show me exactly where I said that? Or that I said the company was not sharing profits etc.
As for the workers preferring to work barefoot on the floor etc. I hope the next time you get a cheese burger the cook prefers NOT to wash his hands after he dropped a deuce. |
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Blueberry Inlay-o-rama!!
