|
|
Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 2487
| Well thanks for the opportunity to discuss something you do not seem to want discussed in here. I was wrong with my statement about this being a discusson site and that this was a topic that warranted some merit.
I guess you decide what we discuss as well.
Fair enough Miles. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7237
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Now Northcountry, you know better.. I really thought I was just saving people some time and effort.
The first post was not "discussion" but rather statement, and an incorrect one at that. It was followed by some suggestions and some more statements, some of which were incorrect but all of which are discussed in depth and reviewed often. It's not like this is the first time it has come up... won't be the last.
I'm sure there were 10 better ways to say it, but it just seemed somewhat wasteful to have a discussion, getting peoples emotions up, about something which the people discussing don't really have any control over. It's not that I don't take the input, I do, but at the end of the day, I'm going to do what is best for the users of this site. And by users, I mean ALL users, not just the few that post.
If you feel you must discuss... by all means.. discuss, make suggestions, but do not (and I don't think you did) post "policy" and "rules" such as telling people where they should or shouldn't post things unless you have the information correct.
If an item is for sale, it goes in the for sale section. If it's an ad of something interesting on CL or eBay, please note on the link that it's just an interesting ad or something we might be interested in. No price police, accusations of scams, etc..
It has worked fine this way for years, that's how it will stay. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2008
Posts: 1455
Location: Texas | Northcountry, I respectfully suggest that your last post was uncalled-for. The moderators have no obligation to ever allow us to publicly discuss board policies, but they usually let such discussions exist if we all remain civil. Plus they frequently respond to our suggestions.
However no-one ever said this was a democracy. In fact, Miles and Al CAN decide what we discuss if they choose, they just rarely enforce that power, and only ask for us to follow a relatively small number of rules.
One of them is to be nice to each other…
(…and none of that necessarily means that I don't agree with you or respect your opinions…)
If they have made a definitive statement of policy, further public discussion serves little purpose. You can always PM Miles if you feel you have a legitimate concern.
That said, and probably because I am dense, I don't know if I completely understand the "for sale" policy, but I think this summarizes it:
--------------------------------------------
All posts regarding sales belong in the "For Sale" section, whether from members, E-Bay, the local Pawn Shop, etc. We are not allowed to make any statements anywhere in the OFC forum which are critical of any post of any item listed for sale whether listed in the OFC "For Sale" section or anywhere else on the 'net.
--------------------------------------------
Is that right? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2008
Posts: 1455
Location: Texas | Sorry, I must have posted simultaneously with Miles… |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2010
Posts: 15
| My second post, and still really not related to Ovation or Adamas guitars... *laugh*
One of the best parts of the "Saw it on eBay/Craigslist/elsewhere!" on the Mandolin Cafe is the regular pointing out of someone posting items that are hugely mislabeled. Some of the sellers of such things have fraudulently sold misidentified items before. I always thought it was nice that the community was vigilant and sought to protect its members from fraud, as well as from well meaning but mistakenly labeled items for sale.
Is keeping other members of the OFC free from such dangers a nice thing, or a naughty thing? My suspicion is that it falls under nice, and if someone were to offer an item which was not what it seemed, then the naughtiness belongs to the person who is making the offering, not the person who is pointing it out.
It's my assumption that the mods here really care about the forum, and that a factual post regarding items for sale, free from emotion and rhetoric, would be allowed. I've seen such things here and elsewhere, along the lines of "I think that used to be Randy's instrument," or "I received an empty box from that seller on eBay and he never made good. Read what I wrote on the feedback." Regardless of whether a seller is a member or not, I think such information is being helpful and nice to other members. I feel confident that the intention of the mods is not to protect fraudulent sellers, but just to prevent folks from being catty.
Then again, I'm not a mod, and this is only my second post. *laugh* |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 2487
| Like I said thanks for the special allowance if this is not normally something allowed....I actually did not know this....and YES I did find it rude in a way as this has been a problem for many who post in here.....Sorry Miles...for my experience we most likely represent more of the non posting forums feelings than you realize....
I also thought is was very a simple thing to just add another section that says something simple like; ...."Off Site Sale Items" .... withn in the For Sale Section.
Like you said miles it is something that has come up........... sounds like Time and Time again..... and My simple thoughts If I may...??? were how hard would it be to actually just "SOLVE" the dam thing rather than perpetuate this credible observation? A simple extra section would do it. Now I can only "ASSUME" this is not an extremely hard thing to do......This is what I base my comments on.
Great Site Miles, I have said it a hundred times.....Good people, good information....great guitars. My suggestions...and those of a few others.....would only help in the long run.
You don't see it this way. Well that's the way it is then. It is certainly your Sand Box Brotha.
I'm done. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 4832
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Nothing in this world is ever 'solved'. Every single thing we do is just the way we choose to do it until it becomes inconvenient or a shiny new idea catches the eye.
Any decisions made this week may or may not be valid or recognized by the group in 6 months times.
Unless Al & Miles say different. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7237
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Nubilee...
You hit the nail on the head. Facts are fine. The only problem we really ever had is the "price police" which just can no longer be tolerated.
I think the effort in general needs to remain on Ovation guitars here. Someone who is smart enough to use eBay or Craigslist is smart enough to search for a price base. If they searched, they were here. Period.. no question. It's pretty hard to search for anything Ovation and NOT end up here. So if someone misrepresents an instrument (not maliciously, but just gives an incorrect description) the only ones to blame are those who post here as that's likely where the person got the information from in the first place.
Now can we please get back to talking guitars... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2010
Posts: 15
| And in keeping with the goals of the forum, I have done just that, introducing myself in the Welcome Center.
Thanks for the great forum, all! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
I'm going to do what is best for the users of this site. And by users, I mean ALL users, not just the few that post. Thanks Miles!
I really wish I could see this site through the eyes of a Administrator/Moderator...
Y'know? Just to see how many folks visit here and search around but never post.
So, you mean that the members of this site are not just the three dozen people who post all the time? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7237
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | OMA,
We average 250 new people each month visiting the site, around 1000 people visit each day. While these numbers can be reduced by as much as 2 or 3% to accommodate people who access the site from multiple computers, still... to respond to your assertion.. "the members of this site are not just the three dozen people who post all the time?" that is correct. But, at the same time, without those who do post, this site would be nothing at all. It is a somewhat challenging juggling act to continue to attract the new folks, the folks that maybe someday will participate but likely won't, and yet keep the folks that help build this wealth of knowledge interested. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7237
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Ooops... made a minor (insert sarcastic chuckle) error in my previous post.. it's 250 new people each DAY... a little over 6000!!! new people each month.
That puts things into perspective, doesn't it. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
The first post was not "discussion" but rather statement, and an incorrect one at that. I clearly labeled my first post as a "suggestion" in the very first line. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7237
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | HI Jeff,
Yeppers you did suggest it was a suggestion. Just didn't read it that way the first few passes. Not sure why. Maybe cause it's a suggestion for a solution and a problem wasn't identified first? Not sure.. but yes, you did frame it as a suggestion. my bad. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 2487
| "Some people Own the corner lot. The rest of us are just millin around, fingering our bag-O-marbles waiting for a chance to get in the game"
Randy Decker
Lets end this with some humor................. this might not be it but its an attempt. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2008
Posts: 1455
Location: Texas | Sooo, when someone posts, for example, an Ebay listing, is it violating the rules to say "That model didn't come with that bridge" or "looks like there's a crack on the headstock" as long as we don't discuss the price/value? Is it only negative comments that we must avoid? Can we say "that's a great price for that guitar"?
Not to beat a dead horse, but I still don't know exactly where the line should be drawn.
It's not my decision, but I hope such comments are still allowed. IMHO, whether the seller is dishonest or just uneducated about the item, it is a service to our members/readers to point such things out. Again just my 2¢…
And thanks for putting up with us… |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | I see no problem with mentioning issues that a guitar may have but sometimes lighting of a pic plays a big part on if something looks cracked or not.
it is unproductive to post a bazillion scenarios because each case has to be taken on an individual basis. if you over step the line we'll let you know |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2006
Posts: 4233
Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent | Originally posted by alpep:
...if you over step the line we'll let you know 
Coudln't resist. Sorry Al. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2008
Posts: 1119
Location: Michigan | I think Miles has nailed it and explained it more than clear enough. As it states at the top of the page:
"This are is NOT intended as a "classifieds" section, but more like the bulletin board of your local music hangout where you can buy, sell or trade gear. Vendors and Dealers are welcome as always and your support is appreciated. However, this website is not intended to be a storefront to a captive audience. Postings of specials, and/or other interesting items this community may be interested in is welcome and encouraged, but abuse of this privilege will not be tolerated."
What else really has to be said. As much as I frequent the board I really don't see the Classifieds as being overrun by irrevelent posts. Go to a site like Fredmiranda.com and post something for sale. You will be lucky if it stays on the first page for an hour. This is a small and friendly group so discussion and banter makes it fun for me. Just my 2 cents. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | if you over step the line we'll let you know
Thanks Al and Miles.
Just like in the playground...
I am glad that we have all this cleared-up...
Anything else y'all don't like about the board?
Posting pics of non-O guitars?
Expressing dislike of Deep, Contour or any other type of bowl?
Expressing a dislike of that yucky blue Adamas color?
Having an extensive sig line that may cause envy of other members?
Expressing a desire to actually buy and learn to play a banjo? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2008
Posts: 1455
Location: Texas | Long thread, short answer:
Use common sense and don't critique anyone's price. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | also think about how much it stinks to list a guitar for sale and then have 15 posts about celebrities that are overpriced to knock your for sale post out of the vision |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Originally posted by alpep:
also think about how much it stinks to list a guitar for sale and then have 15 posts about celebrities that are overpriced to knock your for sale post out of the vision especially considering how management "frowns" on the traditional "bump" that other boards use way too frequently to keep their thread visible and on top. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | To Al's point...
It's a diservice to posting members for their item to be buried by other members, not selling, and posting off site items. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | You are free to go to the Next Page...
 |
|
| |
Posting Guitars You're Not Selling
Members Forums -> General Posting
