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Location: Newington, CT | JMHO, but perspective is important: It's all filler under the peaks established earlier by the greatest of the greats: Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, Brahms, Mendelssohn...and a VERY select few others. I mean these guys wrote hours and hours and hours of MIND-BLOWINGLY SPECTACULAR, PIN-YOU-TO-THE-WALL stuff...stuff that hit musical peaks regularly throughout the same piece. And that could be ONE composition! And they did it coordinating SIXTY or so instruments and players!!!
Heck, I feel a sense of accomplishment when I rip through a 15-second solo that is clever, or put together a few chords that work for a minute or two.
Not that contemporary stuff doesn't have its place, but most of it -- even the best stuff of the 20th century -- is really little more than stuff to outgrow.
Any discussion of music without the old guys, and the standards of genius they set, is like a discussion of golf without Tiger Woods or Jack Nicklaus. |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | The Sunday Edition on CBC has been working through this idea and into the second season of examining 20 Pieces of Music That Changed The World. Sunday before last they spent 20 minutes examining all the influences and results of those influences that sprang from Please Please Me.
No one will be able to do this with todays music quite yet because you need distance to reflect on relevance. Maybe Kings of Leon, The Jonas Brothers, or Michael Franti will produce the music that defines their generation. Or something that catches fire in the world like Reggae will spring from some part of the world no one is expecting any day now.
Or something else. But if it's really gonna spin your head around, you won't see it coming.... |
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| Originally posted by fillhixx:
... CBC has been working through this idea ... they spent 20 minutes examining all the influences and results of those influences that sprang from Please Please Me. That doesn’t bear thinking about; I can only imagine the guilt ridden liberal diatribe..lol |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Decades ago, when I was an Auto Mechanic, my friends used to think I was weird cuz I would be listening to Classic Music while working. (I guess they didn't think that it went with the "Image") But it was good background music. Plus I figure that this music has survived for centuries, so there must be something to it! :rolleyes:
No, really... Classical Music obviously does stand the test of time.
Will people be listening to 'Classic Rock' in a hundred years? |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | We'll never again see such a creative, evolutionay burst of music like we saw between '65 and '75.
I think tupperware and beal have honed in on it ... Some people would say that the music from the late 70's and early 80's was an evolutionary burst ... witness the Ramones, talking heads, blondie, television, the Clash, Grand master Mele mel etc. It seems to me that every 10 years there's another burst ...
I have to agree ... the good stuff is not served up so easily and you have search for it. |
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Location: Newington, CT | Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
Decades ago, when I was an Auto Mechanic, my friends used to think I was weird cuz I would be listening to Classic Music while working. (I guess they didn't think that it went with the "Image") But it was good background music. Plus I figure that this music has survived for centuries, so there must be something to it! :rolleyes:
No, really... Classical Music obviously does stand the test of time.
Will people be listening to 'Classic Rock' in a hundred years? Nicely said. Again, JMHO.
One more addition: The music of the 60's and 70's consisted mostly of topical period pieces, reflecting, accurately or not, the perspectives and states of mind of the times. 100 years from now, when the Vietnam war is to people as the War of 1812 is to us, will people listen to the 60's protest songs? Answer: if and only if the musical elements (melody, rhythm, dynamics, etc.) carry it. The words will be purely abstract.
Furthermore, since the words were frequently the element considered most important, melodies and rhythms of that time tended to be simple and rudimentary. Much, if not most, of the music of that time had its own obsolescence built in.
"All we are saying, is give peace a chance" may have resonated with people at the time, but 100 years from now, I have a feeling this song will be long gone. Why? Well, that's pretty much all they were saying. Certainly, neither the melody nor the rhythm, nor vocal qualities will carry it into posterity.
That's the greatness of Mozart's, Beethoven's, etc. music: the musical elements transcend time. The astonishing beauty of Mozart's Clarinet concerto, or Brahms' First Symphony, or Beethoven's Fifth Piano Concerto will -- can! -- never go out of style, because they're not dependent on chronological relevancy. They represent the efforts of titanic intellects to speak to something innate in humanity, and to produce art of universal and timeless relevancy. |
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Location: NJ | remember also that the record companies have forced artists into being almost "singles only" due to the downloads and mp3's they have no reason to cultivate a musical artist and to allow them to grow over a series of lp's cd's cylinders whatever.
most of the "signed" bands already have a local following, already have a cd and already have the one song that the companies want. they promote that tune and the rest is filler.
there is no more AOR rock (album oriented rock) like there was in the 60's 70's 80's so there is no outlet for the music.
the last time I saw young people really fired up over guitar was with kurt cobain.
seek out the good new music it is there you just have to dig a little harder. |
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| I suspect you're missing one important factor, Brad: Demographics.
Pop music is not just a musical idiom. It's a flag carried by the young for the young. There has been, in fact, much inventive music created in the years since we were in our twenties, including some of the genres you mentioned. They didn't appeal to us because they weren't supposed to. We were not the target demographic. The people who typically spend the largest portion of their disposable incomes on pop music - the young - were.
Periodically the flags change, but they're always carried by the same demographic. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Originally posted by stephent28:
Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
As an outside observer, some may think that "Music Shaped A Generation"...
But that is backasswards. The revolution was in the hearts of the writers, not the other way around.
The 'Movement' came before the Music.
The music just gave voice to the spirit that was in the writer.
Contrary to media-hype... Woodstock marked The End of a Period... Not the beginning.
The beginning was when you had to search for a Ten Years After album, not when you could buy a Beatles album in Woolworth's. When you had to go 'into town' to find a little Head Shop to get some decent music. Or stay-up late to hear good music on the "Underground Pirate Radio" beamed outta the University's AM Radio station... Cranked-up to illegal power levels late at night.
Remember, when The Grateful Dead finally got a song on the Top 40 (Touch of Gray) they said that they must've done something Wrong.
Jimi Hendrix had to go to England to get famous.
The Ramones played to Packed Houses for Decades and never made it on MTV, or the Top 40.
(Not that I am a big Ramones fan, just an example...)
Now 'The Times There Are a-Changing' is the theme song for some Diet Munchies or a HMO.
Some of the best musicians I've heard in my Life were Street Musicians that nobody ever heard of...
[And Brad, remember they wanted to Lock-Up Woody Guthrie and Pete Seeger] WELL SAID old man....WELL SAID! |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Some additional factoids...
- Concept of "record company" is nearly completely dead (as Al mentioned) from the sense of they are only interested in producing the next pop hit. That's it.
- The days of record companies bringing bands into a studio to create music and record it are also almost completely gone. No one can afford it. They are looking for finished product.. or close enough where they can knock out an album in a couple of sessions. No more studio experimentation.
- On the other-hand... there are a gazillion home studios. Some of the most basic "consumer" gear for a few hundred bucks can turn out better master quality product than most pro gear of 70's and earlier.
- On the positive, unlike the 80's and earlier a band that has talent and can cobble together even the most basic recording can now reach an INTERNATIONAL audience at a click... for nearly no cost.
As others have mentioned... now is GREAT time for music, and there is great music out there... it's just not mostly what many of us like... but then again.. I seem to find plenty I like. |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Originally posted by AlanM:
The music of the 60's and 70's consisted mostly of topical period pieces, reflecting, accurately or not, the perspectives and states of mind of the times. Really? Then where are the classic tunes of the 60's reflecting the state of mind of the young apprentice? The middle management drone? Those girls in the 'secretarial pool'?
POP music then, as now, is geared the the state of extended adolescence that modern society has created that lasts from about 10 to 30 years of age....longer in some. :rolleyes:
Re: Joe R vs The CBC. Heck, I have no great love for the CBC. They were my competition when I managed a small town private radio station. But some things they do well, agree with their underlying 'noblesse oblige' mindset or not.
Sunday Morning with Michael Enright is one thing they do well. Even if I disagree with his politic, he's right most of the time. (respect for differing points of view is one of the great handicaps of North American society these days,IMNSHO.)
Oh Yeah! What Mr. O said, +1.
"Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?" |
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Location: Newington, CT | Originally posted by fillhixx:
Originally posted by AlanM:
The music of the 60's and 70's consisted mostly of topical period pieces, reflecting, accurately or not, the perspectives and states of mind of the times. Really? Then where are the classic tunes of the 60's reflecting the state of mind of the young apprentice? The middle management drone? Those girls in the 'secretarial pool'?
POP music then, as now, is geared the the state of extended adolescence that modern society has created that lasts from about 10 to 30 years of age....longer in some. :rolleyes:
It's also why I think that the music of the 60's, 70's, etc. is, ultimately, just not a big deal. Too self-obsessed and narrowly focused. Not that I don't like it...just that it's NOT great art.
However, if you TRULY want to expand your horizons, and stretch your mind, and blow yourself away, get into Mozart, Beethoven, etc. -- LOUD! -- for a bit. Absolutely mind-blowing! And WAAAAAY more far out than "Blowin' in the wind."
I always marvel when I listen to Mozart or Bach -- again JMHO -- I get no feel for what they were like as a people. They seemed to be able to remove themselves entirely from their art, focusing on what was THE right note and cadence to put in. Not THEIR right note or cadence. It just wasn't about them; it was about the music. Now THAT's universal appeal! Beethoven is a bit less like that -- one gets the feeling of the tortured genius. Tchaikovsky as well.
And, yes, I STILL like "Blowin' in the wind." I just think that it's not great art. The stuff of the 60's, 70's and 80's never answers the question: "So what?" for me.
And, yes, I could be wrong (hence, the repeated JMHO's). Several things I have learned from studying various musics for years: you will NOT get to the end of it, and it is FULL of surprises! And, there is ALWAYS room to improve and refine one's perspective. |
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Location: Newington, CT | The impression I always get when discussing music from the second half of the twentieth century is of talking about the little hills and valleys, when the Himalayas lie just a bit beyond. The little hills and valleys are cute, and pretty and quaint, but just over there is grandeur and majesty and sublimity.
Yes, it's fun to climb the intellectual hills, but I think it's important to try to scale the Himalayas of intellectual and artistic endeavor from time to time. |
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Location: Newington, CT | ...and yes, sometimes I'm a pompous blowhard.
:D |
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Location: Tennessee | Originally posted by fillhixx:
Then where are the classic tunes of the 60's reflecting the state of mind of the young apprentice? The middle management drone? Those girls in the 'secretarial pool'?
We've Got To Get Out of This Place - The Animals
Bus Rider - The Guess Who
Downtown - Petula Clark
Just a thought. ;)
P.S. Nice bit from Mr. Byrne. To tie him to one of the themes of this thread ... "The world was moving and she was right there with it and she was". |
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Location: St Louis | Been following the thread and read the article...
I'm on the side of the fence that says there is a ton of good, new, innovative music out there...you just have to look harder to find it.
There was a much more "captive" audience back in the 60's/70's. Fewer outlets to find different great music. Maybe one FM station to listen to (at least where I grew up) so everything was new and innovative and cool.
I grew up listeng to The Allman Brothers Band and have followed them since I first heard Whipping Post but I still continue to find something new and different.
Chase The Sun
The Buddaheads
Albert Cummings
Ansley Lister
Back Door Slam
Derek Trucks
Cafe R&B
Matt Schofield
North Mississippi All Stars
Scott Henderson
Sugarcane Collins
...to name a few. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | My new favorite.. Lily Allen "Not Fair" is painful, but dang... talk about writing from your heart... ouch |
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Location: Orlando, FL | This is a great thread. There is definitely a lot of great music out there.
Technology has made it far easier to record and distribute music. I have discovered a ton of new and great music because of Pandora and other online sources. The record company model is nearly dead. CDs are quietly but steadily going away.
Radio, concerts and, later MTV, used to be pretty much the the only places to listen to music. Now there are so many options. Who listens to the radio on purpose any more?
So it's easier to record and distribute music, but what about promotion? Back in the day, the record companies spent big money promoting artists. No matter how much buzz an artist gets on the internet, it's hard to really reach a mass audience. And when someone like the "United broke my guitar" guy gets a huge amount of press and airplay it still doesn't translate into big bucks for the artist.
There is too much competition for our leisure time. And people's attention spans are so short that everyone is on to the next thing right away.
Making music for a living has never been easy, but I think it's much harder now. There are fewer places to see live music today than ever before.
I think in the future there won't be huge musical acts like the Beatles, Stones, U2, Michael Jackson, etc. There won't be a way to reach a mass audience other than a short lived YouTube hit or American Idol, or whatever comes next. And nobody really takes those "artists" seriously, do they?
But there will continue to be more and more great music out there for those patient enough to seek it out. |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Originally posted by stonebobbo:
Originally posted by fillhixx:
Then where are the classic tunes of the 60's reflecting the state of mind of the young apprentice? The middle management drone? Those girls in the 'secretarial pool'?
We've Got To Get Out of This Place - The Animals
Bus Rider - The Guess Who
Downtown - Petula Clark
Just a thought. ;)
P.S. Nice bit from Mr. Byrne. To tie him to one of the themes of this thread ... "The world was moving and she was right there with it and she was".
back to
Buddy Can You Spare a Dime?
and on into the past and carrying on into the future. As long as people have and will care.
Miles, had to go listen to Lily Alan. I've heard of but not listened. Kinda ballsy feminine pop. I like it. Like salty chocolate.
(now, now, not that) |
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Location: Miami | Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
Some additional factoids...
- Concept of "record company" is nearly completely dead (as Al mentioned) from the sense of they are only interested in producing the next pop hit. That's it.
- The days of record companies bringing bands into a studio to create music and record it are also almost completely gone. No one can afford it. They are looking for finished product.. or close enough where they can knock out an album in a couple of sessions. No more studio experimentation.
- On the other-hand... there are a gazillion home studios. Some of the most basic "consumer" gear for a few hundred bucks can turn out better master quality product than most pro gear of 70's and earlier.
- On the positive, unlike the 80's and earlier a band that has talent and can cobble together even the most basic recording can now reach an INTERNATIONAL audience at a click... for nearly no cost.
As others have mentioned... now is GREAT time for music, and there is great music out there... it's just not mostly what many of us like... but then again.. I seem to find plenty I like. But I was gonna send you an MP3 of me singing one of my songs at home in the hopes that you would bring me into a studio to experiment and record all of my stuff.
Dammit. |
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| Originally posted by fillhixx:
....(respect for differing points of view is one of the great handicaps of North American society these days,IMNSHO.) The Achilles’ heel or tragic flaw as it were.
Originally posted by fillhixx:
Then where are the classic tunes of the 60's reflecting the state of mind of the young apprentice? The middle management drone? Those girls in the 'secretarial pool'? The Kinks dealt with that in the 60s and early 70s. Dead End Street plus the Muswell Hillbillies album and Preservation Act II etc. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I dunno, maybe it's me but I seem to have no trouble finding great music these days. Back in the 70's I was only guided by FM radio and what I could find thumbing the bins at King Karol or Korvettes. Today I've got instant accessibility to the internet, itunes, Sirius, myspace, etc. Yes because there is SO much more music out there, in real numbers there is also lots of trash. But by the same logic, there is just TONS of grear music which is easily and instantly available. Some of my current favs are Jason Mraz, Colbie Callett, Lily Allen, David Grey and Lucy Kapansky. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | No question that there's a significant volume of music readily available these days, some great, some not so great. There's a lot of talented people out there who now have a means of distributing their music. Unfortunately, there isn't a lot of money to be made in doing so as it currently stands. Technology has outpaced the development of institutional standards and controls to protect copyrights and ensure that writers and artists receive their due. Its great if creating music is your avocation, but not so great if it is your vocation. |
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| Originally posted by alpep:
seek out the good new music it is there you just have to dig a little harder. Lifted from artist Q&A on Soundclick
How, do you think, does the internet (or mp3) change the music industry?
"This is an evolving technology. As with all change, those who benefit from the way things are will resist the way things are becoming, but that's human nature. New technology or old, the cream will still rise to the top. With the internet one must wade through a lot of poor quality to find that cream, but once found it will not have been colored by someone else's opinion." |
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Location: Ohio | There is some VERY goood music out there, an from people and places that you would't think of.
Deep Purple guitarist Ritchie Blackmore and his wife Candice are Blackmores's Night. Ther are both heavy into renaissance music and put their own spin on it.
Found them accidentaly for a version of Streets Of London( which they do very well)
Listen to this. The acoustic is fantastic. Ritchie is better than ever...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn4UacVtWpI&feature=related |
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The relevance of todays music
