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Location: south east Michigan | Because I am an employee who cares how company time is spent I made up an "Ass Chewing Request Form". Look... I know when I screw up and I know it's not gonna just slip by and I hate waiting for the hard rain to fall. So when it happens I just fill out the form with the appropriate boxes checked and a short description of the evil deed and drop it in the boss's mailbox. This way I can get an appointment for the ass chewing and less Company time is wasted as I try to hide under my desk.
I'll fax one of those forms over to the factory.
Dave... they owe ya. Big time. |
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| Kurt, you may be right but other guitar makers (martin, larrivee, etc) may have similar issues from time to time. it happens and it's fixable. After all the guitar is under warranty. Dave can send it back and they should be able to fix it. It's weird though that 2 OFC guitars already had these quality imperfections, moody's with the bowl "stain" and Dave' with the tuner... |
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Location: Tychy, Poland | giuseppe: but if you'd spend few thousand dollars on a guitar which should be made with great precision and care, and you got something like that, would you like to send it back and wait for a repair?
I would want my money back, not the guitar, and after getting money i'd call Kevin Ryan and i'd order guitar fully hand-made by him - because in this price range you can get Nightingale which is the best guitar i've ever heard in my life.
And i bet that no Ryan left his workshop with something like this.
Kurt:
try to play on a Lakewood, i've seen those guitars in 2 shops few weeks ago in Germany. They're hand-built and they sound great. And they're in the same price range as ovations. |
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Location: Germany | Guiseppe, it's not the point that these things happen, the point is that these guitars leave the factory with threee signatures from three staffer involved in quality control. This goes deeper. It shows, that the factory has substantial problems in personnel and factory management. Sorry to say that.
I'm involved with the automotive business over here in Germany. We put considerable effort in quality management systems. Could it happen that a Porsche leaves the factory with an inclined mounted car handhold? Please show me one and I undo the above statement.
To me the OFC guitar is the Porsche of the roundback business.
Karl |
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| little boy jefferson, getting your money back may not be an option in this case....I don't know. My understanding is that these guys have pre-ordered thru Al a very special and expensive run of 12 guitars. I wish i could afford to order one!
Regarding your suggestion on getting your money back and order a Kevin Ryan, i think that this is NOT the case here.
I have never played a lakewood but i've heard good things about them. :) |
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | It is hard to imagine how this could have happened in the first place but to have gotten through at least three inspections and reach the final destination without someone picking this up is mind-boggling. |
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| Kurt, you maybe right but serious quality problems affecting the German auto industry (Mercedes, BMW, etc) are well-documented in the international press in recent years. apparently nobody is perfect! |
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Location: south east Michigan | Originally posted by Bluebird:
least three inspections and reach the final destination without someone picking this up is mind-boggling. Heck.. Even if it didn't get "seen", the "feel" of it when tuning should have raised a flag. For inspection purposes this thing had to tuned up what... 3... 4 times??? |
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Location: Upper Left USA | I am really sorry to see that Dave. I was also sorry to see the initialed inspection sheets posted. It didn't feel right.
But then again, I have signed for a number of Ship's systems and reactor parts or inspections over the years and whether the item is major or minor the certification should be consistant.
My only non-return suggestion would be a nice set of Waverly's.
Waverly\'s at Stewmac |
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| My only non-return suggestion would be a nice set of Waverly's. This is a great idea!!!! :) |
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Location: Germany | Guiseepe,
first of all, my name is Karl not Kurt (even though Kurt is a very nice guy).
Second, in this thread we don't talk about a Celebrity or Applause, we talk about the OFC guitar. So I referred to Porsche and not to Mercedes or BMW.
Third, sorry for the quality of my English skills. The quality control in high-school failed 30 years ago.
Karl |
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| Oooooops! Karl sorry for that!
I do get your point, although I look at the OFC slothead as a Ferrari Testarossa. :) :) :) no offense :)
Nevertheless, it seems that QC issues exist, the guys over Ovation should better start taking care of it. The sooner the better. Yet, the positive aspect of it is that the guitars are under warranty! Dave should send it back (if he wants to) and get it fixed. What else can I say? |
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Location: SoCal | Woodrow, those Waverlys are BEAUTIFUL! I don't think that they are the solution here as the guitar should have been RIGHT from the get-go.
But I'm wondering what those Waverlys, in gold, would look like on my FD14. No, wait.. $172? They wouldn't look that good...... |
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Location: Upper Left USA | "One word, my friend... plastic!"
Sorry, that would be wrong too. :rolleyes: |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | 
OK, let me bring this to a close because we are going to get off on all kinds of tangents. It hurts me to say this because Ovation has been very good to me over the years and done some wonderful favors for me. But the bottom line is that Ovation’s quality control just plain sucks. This is not an isolated incident. There is a long, long history of quality control problems with Ovation products. Do a search. Read the threads.
To Ovation’s defense, I think we are asking them to do something they are simply not capable of doing. They build the working mans guitar. The rugged road warrior. The plastic backed Balladeers and Legends. Nice guitars. But now we’re asking them to build high end quality guitars the likes of Martin, Santa Cruz, Lowden and Collings. And in my opinion they are just not capable of doing it, plain and simple. Their problems are always on the high end limited edition stuff. Read the threads. U681, FD14, Adamas reissues, Shiny bowl reissue, 47RI, … A member just emailed me photos of his Adamas very limited run guitar and you would shit if you saw the crappy workmanship. By the way, signed off by the same quality control experts as OFC #8.
Back to the tuning key issue on OFC #8. It took me 3 seconds to spot this problem. This is not a paint smudge that you can only see under a magnifying glass. You can see this from across the freaking room! AND, it’s the low E tuner, the one that stares you straight in the face when you hold the guitar. You couldn’t miss this fu$k-up if you tried. The good news is that it only took me 3 minutes to fix it. I removed the tuner and underneath found TWO sets of screw holes. One set of holes obviously wrong, and next to them a correctly positioned set of holes. Installed the tuner in the correct holes and it’s perfect. The tuner body completely covers the wrongly drilled holes. Obviously the drill guy goofed, spotted his error, and fixed it by making the correct holes. Lucky for his ass it would all be covered by the tuner body. So, problem solved and everything is good.
Well no, actually everything is NOT good. Here’s where the quality problems really started to snow ball. How did the person installing the tuners NOT notice that they used the wrong holes and that the position of the tuner was obviously screwed up? How did the person who strung the guitar NOT notice this problem? How did THREE quality control inspectors who signed off the tag NOT notice this problem? Hell, even the slap-jockey who puts it in the case should have noticed that it was not right! Like I said, you can see this from across the damn room!
Now here is the icing on the cake. Which of the six tuners do you suppose the initialed quality assurance tag was attached to? YUP. Right there, Ovation Quality Assurance attached by a string to my fucked up tuner! Gentlemen, there is a SERIOUS problem here. If these were isolated incidents I could “almost” understand it. But this happens over and over again and I see no signs that it will ever change. I really think that it’s time for Ovation to break the code of silence and for someone in a position of responsibility to come here on this board and please explain to use what in the hell is going on. Because it’s NOT good. We say that Ovation guitars don’t get the respect they deserve? Bullshit. The reputation that Ovation has is EXACTLY what they deserve.
I think the problem is much deeper than the specific people who turned a blind eye to the issue with OFC #8. I’ve been thinking abut this - Ovation makes a small “business” of selling FRG guitars. Does this sound a little odd to anyone other than myself? And I love John and Kim like brothers, but does it strike anyone as unusual that the SERVICE department is the shining star of the company? Am I way off base here?
As I said, Ovation has done some wonderful, wonderful things for me. And it pains me to have to say this and probably burn some bridges, but it HAS to be said. The quality control just plain sucks. I don’t know how else to say it.
I have been a loyal Ovation enthusiast for 39 years and have really tried to be a good ambassador for the product. But I just can’t do it when they give us this level of quality to work with. At some point you ask yourself why am I putting myself through this when there are such better alternatives available? Sure they are great working mans guitars, great value for the money, wonderful electronics, awesome service department, etc. But you know what? Maybe the rest of the world is right. Maybe they ARE made of plastic. Maybe they DO sound inferior to wooden guitars. Maybe the quality DOES suck. I’ve run out of ways to defend it.
So that’s it. I’m DONE. End of the road.
CLICK, CLICK, CLICKITY, CLICK, CLICK. OVER AND OUT.
Dave |
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Location: south east Michigan | Like I said before... "Why did it have to be Dave???".
And Dave... I'm very happy there was a fix for this. But I still think they owe ya. At least an apology. |
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Location: North Idaho | Proof positive these are handmade. Just as we are not perfect, so are the products of our making. What alarms me is the fact that no one fixed the mistake. Either several people--hole driller, tuner installer, string installer, and final inspectors-- did not see the problem or chose to ignore the 'screw up'. Makes me want to be more diligent in my work as others do eventually see what I've done or failed to do. Dave, I feel bad that this happened to you and the inconvenience caused. Still, I will reserve my final judgment towards Adamas/Kaman until I see how they respond. |
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| wow.... :(
Dave, your frustration makes me sad, frankly. I hope the guys over ovation do something to fix the problems... |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Okay, the CONSISTENT quality appears to be a real issue. (Like I'd know. I've have 5 different O's in 35 years and still have 3 of them.)
But some of us are tuned a little tighter than others too. (Of course, this may be another perfect example of why I won't live in any city. Being surrounded by people seems to wind everyone up a bit.)
The Buddha says; Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. (not that I follow anyone's teachings. I enjoy the view as I wander, lost ;) )
We all give the same advice to newbies here about how to treat and value their guitar. Buy what you like and play the hell out of it!
I'd say; register you legitimate dissatisfaction with Ovation. (yes, you've already done that) See what they do to make up for the error, and see what it sounds like in the meantime.
My motto:
Stay curious |
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| I've just checked my custom ordered Country Artist which had a barrel load of faults and still has unvarnished insides to the slotheads.
Guess who initialled the QC card? |
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| fillhixx,
I couldn't agree more!!! |
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Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | As conspiracy theories go.....Could Ovation's QA problems be associated with one or more people at Ovation who have something against the OFC for some reason or other?
Considering that most all of the problems show up on the high end,limited run,special issued guitars that OFC'ers have either asked for and/or ranted and raved about their attributes on this board or to the factory.....
Hmmm,I wonder.......Has anyone ever seen a crooked tuner on a Celebrity? |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by tdeej:
Proof positive these are handmade. Just as we are not perfect, so are the products of our making.
What alarms me is the fact that no one fixed the mistake. Either several people--hole driller, tuner installer, string installer, and final inspectors-- did not see the problem or chose to ignore the 'screw up'.
Still, I will reserve my final judgment towards Adamas/Kaman until I see how they respond. I definitely agree on the first point. Machines don't make mistakes once they are programmed correctly... Humans ain't so perfect.
On the other point... I just do maintenance, but if I have time I go for perfection.
I understand that time is of the essence at a "factory" but...
This is a Numbered Special Edition! Pay Attention!
I am glad to here that it was fixable :)
edit-- "Hmmm,I wonder.......Has anyone ever seen a crooked tuner on a Celebrity?"
Nope! All mine work acceptably... |
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Location: Midland, MI | Wait...the QC tag was hanging on the dicked up tuner?
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Location: Midland, MI | Originally posted by TRboy:
Hmmm,I wonder.......Has anyone ever seen a crooked tuner on a Celebrity? I'm sure it has happened, but the possibility that the import line is actually of higher finish quality than the domestic line is...I'm not even going to finish that thought. |
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OFC Guitar # 8
Forums Archive -> The Vault: 2007
