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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Will Ovation make good on replacement or repair? Yes, of course.
Is the occasional quality defect going to happen? Yes, of course.
Is a fucked-up guitar tuner placement a good reason to go postal? Probably not but, it can be entertaining....
But, I will applaud Tuppy for calling a spade a spade. THINK about this! 12 high end guitars touched by relatively few hands, not like they are speeding through and assembly line... Inspected at least three different times and the tag hung on the very defect that went unnoticed... there is a systemic accountability issue here or poor standards or folks just don't know any better or worse don't care, any and all of which are not good.
Standing alone, this might seem like the odd, infrequent occurrence, but this isn't a stand alone occurrence... in fact, well documented.
There's an elephant in the living room. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Is a fucked-up guitar tuner placement a good reason to go postal? I think Dave has handled this very well. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Guys, don't get out of hand here. There's no conspiracy theory. No one is going to call me and apologize for the problem. I'm not looking for anything. It's fixed, the guitar is perfect. It sounds great, plays great, and I'm proud to own it. I'm forever indebted to Al for doing this project.
I'm just completely fed up with this ongoing issue of poor workmanship and lack of quality control. It is what it is and in the end the consumer decides if this is worth his trouble and money or not. End of story.
Dave |
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Location: Midland, MI | Originally posted by Jeff W.:
...
Standing alone, this might seem like the odd, infrequent occurrence, but this isn't a stand alone occurrence... in fact, well documented. Dammit, what they need is a management consultant/motivational speaker/team builder guy to come up there and school 'em! ;)
There's an elephant in the living room. Where's a trebuchet when you need one, Jeff? :D
(This post is not to make light of Dave's plight) |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Changed my mind about this post. |
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| Guys, don't get out of hand here. There's no conspiracy theory. No one is going to call me and apologize for the problem. I'm not looking for anything. It's fixed, the guitar is perfect. It sounds great, plays great, and I'm proud to own it. I'm forever indebted to Al for doing this project. Nicely said Dave! Glad you fixed it and you like it. Enjoy the guitar! |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Originally posted by Slipkid:
Is a fucked-up guitar tuner placement a good reason to go postal? I think Dave has handled this very well. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Originally posted by cruster:
Dammit, what they need is a management consultant/motivational speaker/team builder guy to come up there and school 'em! ;) Customized programs available. Contact me at  |
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Location: Carle Place, NY | Considering how simple it was to fix, I think that Dave's diatribe was unnecessary. |
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| Diatribe............ it's only talk..... |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | Wow, I just got home and found this tread...Dave, my friend, I am sorry...and I know just how you feel...remember what happened two weeks ago when I opened the 1687-2 and found the inspection cover inside the guitar...the lip had separated completely from the body w/ the plate still securely attached...again, I fixed it (because I could) and was able to play it and was blessed that nothing else was ruined with that inside the guitar during shipping...at first we thought it was rough handling by DHL...but that turned out to not be the case: the inside of the body had not been wiped out before the lip was cemented in place: I know this as there was a thin film of "factory dust"/"builders residue" on the inside of the bowl...it should have been wiped out with a tack cloth before gluing...it wasn't and the contact failed...This on a Custom Shop Adamas high end top of the food chain Model...Yes, I fixed it and glad that I could...Dave did the same. Bravo Dave! BUT, WE SHOULD NOT HAVE A 2ND/DAMAGED/BROKEN GUITAR SHIPPED WITH A QUALITY ASSUARANCE TAG (MINE IS IDENTICAL TO DAVES; I STILL HAVE IT) CLAIMING OTHERWISE! Dave has every reason to be upset and those who claim he should not; well when was the last time you spent thousands of dollars; waited months for it to arrive; and then immediately find it was messed up (I'm being kind here)? Give me a break! I love John and Kim like brothers, but does it strike anyone as unusual that the SERVICE department is the shining star of the company? Am I way off base here?
No Dave, you are right on target and it needs to stop!
"Integrity is who you are and what you are when you are all alone"
That holds for QA as well as the person on the assembly line; as well as the management of the company...it is a universal truth!
I just had the 2nd B string and both E tuners on my 1990 1758-1 repaired/realigned at the mothership along with a few age related issues...Now its as good as new, but that the guitar ever left in 1990 with three misaligned tuners should have never happened. Mistakes are made; we are human after all, but where is our integrity?
Blessings... |
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Location: Tychy, Poland | Originally posted by TRboy:
Hmmm,I wonder.......Has anyone ever seen a crooked tuner on a Celebrity? speaking of celebrity.
tuners on my Celeb (2002 LE) look like they were painted with cheap gold paint used for plastic models.
They've lost original colour and they look 3 times older than those on my legend. Another thing:
In bridge the hole for piezo is badly cutted. after putting the saddle directly on 1 shim and a piezo you have high E string 2mm higher than low E.
Not to mention that 5 years old preamp is DEAD in this guitar and AFAIK this is the most expensive celebrity except double necks. |
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Location: Germany | Shipping of #10 is pending (it still waits for the carbon fibre case). I feel damn queasy.
Karl |
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| hmmm, I see lots of QC issues here....something is not right.... |
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Location: Tennessee | Originally posted by Mitchrx:
Considering how simple it was to fix, I think that Dave's diatribe was unnecessary. I understand your point Mitch, but ... I know that there are some obvious quality issues and downright flaws with a number of the OFC guitars ... things that should never have gotten out of the factory nor foisted on some of the brand's most loyal supporters. Dave is the only one with the cajones to speak out ... even if Dave's issue is relatively minor compared to some of the others I know about. But if something that apparent got by the QA process, what other issue lurk beneath the "across the room" obvious?
You would never see these kinds of defects on $1500 guitars from the "other" manufacturers, much less a guitar that's over four grand. They would never have gotten out of the door of those other factories, and in the case of a $4K guitar, their workshop. You've gotta ask yourself "what would you think if it was hanging in a music store". Answer: Ovation's best efforts are still crappy guitars and not even up to the standards of the better Chinese brands.
We all appreciate all of the hard work and cajoling Al did on our behalf to get these guitars made, and perhaps don't to make a stink. There was a lot a pushback from certain quarters of the company to make these in the first place, so some are reticent to push the issue. Maybe some didn't want to put Al through the pain of dealing with our issues. Well, those with defects need to stand up and be counted. We've got to let the company know. Some may choose to do it in a less public way, but that's a personal decision.
If you've bought a guitar that is the finest that Ovation can make, it should be the finest Ovation can make. If this is it, Ovation is in a world of hurt. |
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| Dave's issue is relatively minor compared to some of the others I know about.....Well, those with defects need to stand up and be counted. We've got to let the company know. Some may choose to do it in a less public way, but that's a personal decision.
why? how many of them had QC issues? so far we know of 2... :confused: :eek: |
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Location: NJ | Originally posted by Tupperware:
No one is going to call me and apologize for the problem. dave
I did exactly that.
when I found out about the problem HERE. |
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Location: Germany | :) |
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | "...why? how many of them had QC issues? so far we know of 2..."
If eight have been delivered, that's 25%. Far to many for a guitar of this calibre. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Guys, you are missing my point just a little bit. My posts on this topic were 10% about my specific issue and 90% about a much bigger issue. With regard to #8 I was able to easily fix it myself (Mitch, you stated "if it was so easy to fix why make a big deal about it" - well, you answered your own question). If I could not have fixed it, then the factory would have. They would make it 100% perfect, I have no doubt about it. Al was all over this and offered to take whatever action necessary and I know 100% that he is a man of his word and would stand behind it. The issue is not #8. The issue is not really the workmanship. People make mistakes - you are dealing with human beings, wood and power tools. Never a good combination. The bitch that I have, and I still feel very strongly about it, is the quality assurance tag on the guitar. If it says the guitar met your standards yet still leaves with obvious flaws, then there is either a problem with the standard, or in how it is being applied.
Dispite all the storm that's been stirred up in this thread, and I SINCERELY APOLOGIZE for blind siding Al after all he has done for us, I do hope some good will come of it and perhaps folks might rethink what quality assurance really means before they give it the rubber stamp. This applies to Ovation as well as probably a lot of our own jobs.
All this behind us, the OFC Guitar is really an amazing instrument. It has a slightly different voice than the 47RI. And without question that damn 1-3/4 neck is the cat's ass. For the last 3.5 years I've been spouting how the FD14 was the finest neck I've ever played. No more. This #8 neck is just something to die for. I'll try to post a photo later of all the cool Lost Art swag. Al went above and beyond and this is some really good stuff. I love the Access Bag - exactly what I needed. Here's some interesting stuff that was in the case.
Dave |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by alpep:
Originally posted by Tupperware:
No one is going to call me and apologize for the problem. dave
I did exactly that.
when I found out about the problem HERE. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Can someone explain the vibrometer plot to me. Looks like it peaks out at 91 and 167 Hz. Is this similar to what the other OFC guitars look like? I wish they had done this to the 47RI guitars. As I said, the two guitars have a little different voice and I'd be interested to see how their plots compare.
Dave |
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Location: Germany | Dave, thanks for posting the response spectrum. The lowest resonance frequency is 91 Hz, so your guitar has serial# 22354-91.
Karl |
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Location: South of most, North of few | Al, I understood completely where you were coming from on this. Anything can be repaired, and some repairs are very easy, as in your case. The fact remains, you spent A LOT of money on a top of the line instrument which one would think would, first of all, be assembled with the utmost care, and secondly, be absolutely inspected as perfect before it ever left the premises. The real problem isn't your guitar, it's the crew that let it leave in the condition it was. Let's all hope this isn't the shape of things to come from Ovation. | |
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OFC Guitar # 8
Forums Archive -> The Vault: 2007
