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Location: Texas | Well, I just hope that no OFCer buys it outside knowing that I played by the rules and bid on ebay and won it fair and square.
If we find out that someone on the club bought it, I am going to demand that they kick him out of the OFC or I am out myself.
Serge |
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Posts: 2487
| Much like the rest of us I have been watching this one as well! That is a beautiful instrument Serge. I know how pissed you are about this whole deal so please do not take my suggestion wrong. It is worth more than the $5k and it will go even higer in value in the future? Make some kind of a deal with these sellers and to hell with the Ebay rules. If the seller is not going to follow them your sunk otherwise. Offer alittle more? I think 8k is to much considering it did not reach anywhere near this price in that auction? But I am rooting for ya.
Randy |
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Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | Serge, well said...
eBay has the ability to take action, we'll see. An individual listing agrees to "rules" and "restrictions." He has contracted to sell based on his listing and the fact that the auction ended. I am not a lawyer but I do believe Serge has legal rights under "performance", both against the seller and eBay. As a bidder, Serge agreed to certain obligations and gained certain rights under a unilateral contract. Disregarding what state(s) would have jurisdiction over eBay's actions, both Serge and the seller are residents of Texas. Interesting whether the Texas Attorney General or Corporate Commissioner would find this interesting. Especially as this is the second auction, after the seller was chastised by eBay. |
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Posts: 2487
| Good luck man. Problem is it takes so long and by the time any letters are written or action taken that guitar will be gone! and the expense of litigation will still fall upon the pursuant? I just want to see you get this guitar Serge. This is the easiest way and it's worth considering.
By all means if your interested in pursueing this through legal channels go for it! You have a case but you and I know how this works! You may get some retribution in the end a few years from now? but that guitar will not be in your hands in the end! Dam Shame too! Bad auction from the start! |
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Posts: 398
Location: So. Cal. | "..If we find out that someone on the club bought it, I am going to demand that they kick him out of the OFC or I am out myself."
Serge: Your dispute is with the seller. I do not, personally, see any connection with the OFC or its members. I find it, again personally, presumptuous for you to make such a statement. It's like preschool children telling their friends not to play with someone they don't like.
If I had the money and ended up buying the guitar, Miles or Al can ban me from the board if they choose (which I doubt they would); but I certainly would not feel bad doing so (buying the guitar and stay on the OFC board).
Incidentally, we all know that offers were already made to the seller for up to $8k. I was not surprised that no one even bothered to bid last night. Otherwise, you really think in a legitimate auction this guitar would have gone for only $5k?
I apologize if I offended anybody on the board. I am merely expressing my personal opinion on this. As a member in good standing, I take offense to people telling me how to behave as an OFC member. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | "I guess THIS is why Miles refers to it as the "Elusive (as opposed to "Illusive" ;-) SlotHead" "
A couple of people have mentioned this, and I don't understand. If you don't have the courtesy to tell me where the mistake is, it's obviously of not that great importance, yet it keeps coming up. Very odd.
As far as the slothead deal... make ya kinda wonder about someone who lists a multi-thousand dollar guitar yet has concerns about a minimal listing fee. For my two cents... price is dictated by market. $5000 seems reasonable. Is it "worth" more, probably, but I don't think anyone will pay that much, at least not for another 20 or 30 years. |
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Location: SoCal | You guys are getting all wound up by a prick in Texas who's tooling everybody around.
Everybody step back from the table and take a deep breath and relax. This is not worth getting upset about. |
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Location: SoCal | Michael, in reference to "As a member in good standing, I take offense to people telling me how to behave as an OFC member."
I think the points are: [1] any potential buyer had the option to bid prior to the close; [2] I guess we would hope that members of the OFC are a little different than most.
Some OFC'ers have contacted a seller after a failed auction (didn't meet reserve, etc.)- fine. Some OFC'ers have bid against each other - fine.
Only concern I have is that this was a valid auction. I had the option to be the higher bidder. I could have made a personal offer to the seller outside of eBay. Personally, I decided early on that it wasn't worth it. It is, after all, only a guitar. I won't violate my personal beliefs. I can't force others. I can make a decision to associate with others that I want, as Serge can. |
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin | Good point Moody. Let's not forget to vote on Tuesday! |
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Location: SoCal | I don't know if the final word got out, but the election voting rules have changed. Republicans are to vote on Tuesday, and Democrats on Wednesday. |
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin | Good one! We'd better not take this too much further. I just thought a subtle comment wouldn't hurt. |
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Location: Tennessee | Serge,
You've got every right to be upset (if indeed the seller does not come through) ... you have a valid contract per the eBay "contract" one signs when they register, post for sale, and bid. Hopefully the seller will do the right thing, but if not, your choice is litigation ... I'm not a contract lawyer, but I certainly have paid enough of them to know that you indeed have a valid contract; the question is enforcement if it comes to that.
But what I really want to say that I have dealt with, and gotten to know, many of the members of the OFC. Every one of them are honorable people in my eyes. They may bid against you, me or each other on an item of this magnitude and importance, but those I know would let the pieces fall where they will and wouldn't back door the winner at the end of the auction. The folks I know here just aren't wired that way. Then again, I am often accused of always seeing the best in people ... on occasion I get burned, but the vast majority of the time I find that good people always want to do the right thing. And this board is full of good people. (The above doesn't necessarily apply to the occasional lurkers here, but then again, that's not why you're here.)
I for one truly value your insights and advice and am honored that someone of your stature takes the time to frequent this board as much as you do. Those of us who have been following this whole sordid affair have known that you were on this with a passion, and I for one was rooting for this guitar to end up in your talented hands where it could be used in the manner which was intended by Charlie in the first place. We could then all share in the majesty of the guitar on your next album.
I wish you nothing but the best of luck in getting this transaction completed to your satisfaction. But I also believe that if it doesn't, another one will come along at a time and place that was truly meant to be. |
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Location: SoCal | I second what Bob says. |
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Location: SoCal | The problem is that there were and are members of the OFC that didn't bother to bid on eBay (or at least near the end) to win the guitar "fair and square."
They went directly to the seller with their "private offers" while the auction was in progress and have submitted offers after the bidding was won by Serge.
Just got off of the phone with Hector (seller), not to buy the guitar, but to try and see if seller would honor the contract with Serge - Serge is in Mexico City and asked me to call him. Glad I did. Hector is not the low-life I thought he was. Nice guy trying to sell a guitar and get a decent price for it. Hope he comes back to the OFC often. Sounds like Hector will make his decision soon. Just too bad that those making private offers didn't stand up and bid at the auction. Serge "played by the rules." |
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Location: SoCal | Hector's not that great a guy if he puts an auction up on ebay and then doesn't honor it. |
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Location: SoCal | Paul, absolutely correct...told me he would write Serge this evening.
Maybe he'll stand tall and do the right thing. |
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Location: SoCal | I hope so. Given the chance, I prefer to think the best of people. |
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Location: SoCal | Well, we do and do not have the answer. Direct copy of email Serge forwarded to me:
SERGIO,
I UNDERSTAND YOU.
ALOT OF GUYS SAID THEY WHERE GONNA BID AND DIDN`T.WAS TRYING TO SEE THE MARKET ON THIS UNUSUAL, NOT AN EVERY DAY,ONCE IN A LIFE TIME GUITAR.THE AUCTION SAYS AND MY EMAILS THE OFFERS GIVEN TO PREPARE YOU AND OTHERS.
THANX,HECTOR.
IMHO, anyone doing business with this guy is forewarned about his scruples. Also, my understanding, he is now trying to sell an item that he is obligated contractually to sell to Serge. Could be sticky... |
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Location: NJ | welcome to the wonderful world of e bay |
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Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | Al, glad you got back safely...was great to have you come out!!! |
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Posts: 1196
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Reading all these posts makes me think what Charlie Kaman would think of all this interest in his slothead creation. I wonder if Ovation knew back when these guitars were made just how special they are. I sure hope this guitar goes to an OFC member, as these are guitars to cherish for years, and examples of how Ovation was and is ahead of its time in guitar building. |
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Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | Just a clarification.
I will not throw off anyone from the OFC if they buy this guitar.
Hector is purely a capitalist who wants to get the most money for his instrument. Unfortunately he went about it in the wrong way.
If anyone should be thrown off the site it should be me, I am just an idiot that buys and sells guitars for a living. I have bought many guitars from ebay and resold them. It's called business.
Sorry Serge but if you leave the OFC over this it is your decision. Your beef is with Hector not with the OFC. Hector seems the less than honorable one here IMHO. as for any e mails etc they are probably all lip service.
YUP tony made it back safe from CA |
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Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | It reminds me of the old saying, when you dance with a snake, always look him in the eye. That's kind of how I look at ebay. Knock on wood I've never had a problem and the few items I reallllly wanted I got not problem. |
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Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Ebay can be craptastic! I know all of us have horror stories. One of my favorite scams is a seller selling something he doesn't own. Basically, the guy had swiped a picture from Miles website. You have to be so careful with ebay, and when you tell the ebay police about this, they are useless. |
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Posts: 1300
Location: Madison, Wisconsin | I wonder if UPS and Ebay are run by the same people? |
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Adamas slothead
