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October 2005
Posts: 5331
Location: Cicero, NY | "Basically I (think) I have some raw material and capability, but just can't seem to tie the knots together into anything cohesive."
Incredible. My existence in a thimble. |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12759
Location: Boise, Idaho | Ditto. I'm in that same thimble, except I never had a lesson and took the middle 25 years off. I'm pretty satisfied playing other people's songs for the most part. Then I listened to Bobbo on the OFC cd this morning and started thinking that I really need lessons to force me to learn enough theory that I could either write my own stuff or at least improvise. I need some pressure.
I don't think I've ever practiced as much as I do just before and after a gathering, just to avoid embarassment. We need more of those in the Northwest. |
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Joined:
December 2006
Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by Joe Camel:
I went through about 3 teachers until I found one whom I respected for her playing and we got along fine. We agreed on short-term and long-term goals and took time every six months to see where we were making and missing our goals. That's the way to do it, if ya can!
'Half-filled Thimble' Iffy |
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November 2005
Posts: 4832
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | The mystery secret to mastery?
10,000 hours! |
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Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4075
Location: Utah | It will be interesting to hear Canterbury Strings' reply, being that she is a guitar teacher.
I used to teach people to fly airplanes for a living, both little airplanes and turbine powered airliners. It got too scary, but that's another story.
My experience is that the chemistry between student and teacher is important, just as important as any other factor. Your teacher has to understand your desires and goals, and he/she has to have the tools to put together a program that matches those desires and goals. Finally, the student has to put forth adequate effort to be prepared for each lesson.
Do you and the teacher get along? If you don't like each other, lessons aren't going to work out no matter how great a guitarist he/she is and no matter how dedicated you are.
Does your teacher know how to teach? Does he/she put together a big-picture syllabus as well as individual lesson plans? It doesn't sound like it. The teacher should make it clear what the big plan is, such as "we're going to work our way through this book, and we're going to also learn songs that apply what's in that book". Or, "We're going to work on basic theory, learn a bunch of chords, and master a bazillion different scales". Or, "We're going to learn and jam to a bunch of different songs so that you can be the life of the party, though we aren't going to learn much theory".
Each lesson should have a understood lesson plan. You are going to review last week's learning (maybe play that scale you were given last week), then you'll review some new stuff, and then maybe you'll jam for ten minutes (there should be some reason to jam, not just kill time).
While the teacher may not provide a specific written plan to you, it should be understood by both of you what your goals are, and how the lessons move you in that direction.
You have to practice what is taught in a productive way. I found that some students were very motivated, while others expected that simply showing up was enough.
In my opinion, you should have a talk with your instructor about your dissatisfaction with the lessons. Perhaps he/she just doesn't understand what you want out of the lessons. Maybe the talk will result in a better plan and more focus on your interests. Perhaps he/she just isn't the right match for you and you need a different instructor. |
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Joined:
February 2008
Posts: 747
| Originally posted by mercury187:
... after a year I really only know basic chords and maybe a scale, other than that I can play parts of songs but that's about it.
...any hope for one day understanding guitar and how to write songs?
...I just dont feel like I'm learning a whole lot other than just play these notes or these chords with this strum pattern for this song... After playing for a year you should be well past the awkwardness of physically handling the instrument and in a position to learn on your own by practicing endlessly, trying different arrangements and making stuff up using what you know.
Inspiration has to come from you - relying on someone else to inspire you doesn't go far.
Actual song writing with lyrics and such is contingent upon have something to say in the first place so that can be a major stumbling block for people no matter how many years they have played or taken lessons.
You either have something to say or you don't but, if not, you can still work up your own instrumental arrangements using the skills that you have - that can be quite enjoyable and easier insofar as you don't have to slave over trying to copy what someone else has done.
I took lessons for about 3 months when in grade five - the only thing I got from it was a dislike of sunburst finishes because there was a picture of one on the cover of the song book that we used.
Not long after the lessons ended someone showed me how to play house of the rising sun and with the chords and picking from that song I kinda learned how a song fits together. I was able to branch out from there and eventually get to the point where I could learn from a recording or make up my own stuff.
In high school I showed a few chords and songs to a friend who was at the beginner level with guitar and he ended up as professional musician, released a few records which weren't that great IMO but one of his songs (26 Cents) was nominated for a Grammy. Obviously all that had nothing to do with me - all I did was show him a few chords which he would have learned somewhere anyway but the point is that I know for sure that he couldn't play for beans in HS and that he made a career w/out ever taking formal lessons.
Similarly, another friend from HS; he didn't play anything at all and then bought a Dobro when he was about 18. Within a year he was learning stuff off records pretty good and went on the road with a band after HS called Reverend Ken and The Lost Followers...lol
So the ball is very much in your own court. |
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Joined:
March 2008
Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Well, I can tell right away that your teacher has a problem. If he or she doesn't ask you to play last week's lesson so they can see if you're doing it right, they either don't care or are not capable.
I DO ask my students what they want to do this week. You can teach guitar skills using just about any song. If a song is too complex for their level, I simple it down for them. They are more likely to practice if they like what they are working on. I also try to give them something new with each lesson. I mean, yeah, I could just teach them a bunch of songs, and then all they would know is that bunch of songs. So if someone asks to learn a new song that contains chords and patterns they already know, I might change the key so they get practice using "unfamiliar" chords. If their strumming is already good, it's time to start fingerpicking.
But it sounds to me that you want to start writing. For that you either need a good ear or theory or both. Plus some imagination. Rather than trying to think of a song you want to learn, maybe next lesson you could go in with a chord progression you found. Then tell your teacher you need help finding a bridge. Your teacher SHOULD show you the theory behind "what goes together well". Then they should suggest possibilities. (There will be more than one.) If they can't do that, well...
There is a good website that can help you with theory. There are a lot of them out there but this is my favorite. Just google the word stonedragon. Then click on the free lessons. They have guitar lessons for absolute beginners, all they way up to theory for advanced players. You'll get some good information to work with.
And last but definitely not least, EXPERIMENT. Try to pick out a melody on one string. After you've found it and you know it's right, try to find a harmony on the next string. Then add a third harmony. By now you have a chord for each melody note. Now see if you can keep adding harmonies to complete the chord. (HINT-this seems to be easier to do in the keys of G or A.)
Oh, and for practice, ten or fifteen minutes at a time, several times a day is a lot better than once a day for two hours straight. You DO need to play EVERY SINGLE DAY though. And if you ever have questions that your teacher can't or won't answer, get in touch with me by PM. I'd be more than glad to help. |
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March 2009
Posts: 715
| Mercury, I've been taking lessons for close to three years now.
My experience has been that it is a very slow process for someone like myself, who does this strictly part-time after having a full time job and other commitments.
It has also been going slow because I haven't put the time into it that I should. Like Alison said, I have found out that I need to do this every day. And I have developed a new attitude about it also. Work in = progress.
It sounds like your teacher may be experiencing burnout. It happens. Also, some people are great musicians, but lousy teachers. Like the others have said, you need to talk to your teacher.
Good luck with your teacher -- and stick to learning guitar!
Michelle |
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Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 4535
Location: Flahdaw | I have never had a lesson. The easiest way for me to lose interest in something is someone telling me how to do it. I don't want to learn how to read music, any more than I want to know what makes the sky blue. I just want appreciate both. I'll never be a great player, but I sure like playing. |
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December 2006
Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Alison has highlighted the difference twix a teacher/instructor vs. an educator!  |
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March 2008
Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | dark bar is an EXCELLENT guitarist. (Check him out on youtube.) He taught himself to play using the "experiment" method. And when you learn that way, it may take a little longer, but you really KNOW the stuff you've learned. Not only that, but you find all kinds of other interesting things along the way that you can apply later. |
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Joined:
February 2008
Posts: 747
| Youtube search revealed the following inter alia..lol
"Sorry for the Bad Quality, it was in a dark bar."
"Im sorry there's a dark bar across the screen and sorry for the clicky noises."
"Sorry for the dark bar that enters the screen every now and then, I dont know how to stop it." |
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December 2006
Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | That's the Bob we've come to know and... ummm... tolerate! |
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Joined:
March 2008
Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Try typing in darkbarguitar. |
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Joined:
February 2008
Posts: 747
| Originally posted by CanterburyStrings:
Try typing in darkbarguitar. Yeah, that works, thanks.
Actually, first search I did was "youtube darkbar guitar" and I got a collection of links to videos that were too dark to see because they'd been recorded in a dark bar..lol |
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April 2006
Posts: 2491
Location: Copenhagen Denmark | If I was to grade the Quality of Response , .. the one from CanterburyStrings deserves an .. A + .. for I remember the strife and havoc that I`ve found myself in ( still find myself in at times ) , that was Solid Advice , and a Great Offer :)
Vic |
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questions for those who have taken guitar lessons
