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Posts: 288
Location: New Hampshire, USA | Example: http://westernmass.craigslist.org/msg/1510239281.html
Taking serious offers only
No low ballers please
Not looking to get rich, but wont it go too cheap
Try me! Phrases like "serious offers", "low ballers", and "too cheap" have zero meaning without a reference point.
There are MANY people who won't bother pursuing a CL listing if they don't have a clue whether their offer would be in the ballpark or not. They just want to know the asking price.
By not listing at least an asking price, these sellers are alienating a HUGE segment of their target market.
Seems pretty stupid to me. |
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August 2002
Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | Comes down to the art of the deal. In most situations, price never gets in the way of a deal that is right for both sides. In other words, price is usually the LAST thing that is important when doing a deal. If you're selling a piece of crap, or something you can get from a hundred different places at any given point in time, then low price wins. If you are selling something of value to someone else, why even talk price until you've established the value to someone? Unless your entire intent is to provide nourishment to the bottom feeders.
What this guy has is a fairly rare item, and it sounds like he's trying to find a qualified buyer with whom he can make a good deal for both sides. And his other language is just there to help set expectations. I don't see anything wrong with that. |
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Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by scooterboy:
"low ballers", and "too cheap" By not posting an asking price, that's exactly what they normally get. Then they get upset... Go figure...
Seems pretty stupid to me. Yepper, they're out there!
In this case, a little research and posting a asking price (even if an optimistic one) would aid the seller and buyer in establishing expectations. |
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Posts: 766
Location: New Hampsha | for the same reason that folks sometimes don't post a price in the OFC "For Sale" list.
They haven't done their homework and are fishing for offers as a sort of mini-Fleabay, only they won't set an opening price and there's no provision for a reserve.
Just move on. |
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Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Quite often what makes sense from one person's perspective doesn't from another's.
In other words, maybe Bobbo's right. But you'll never know if you 'just move on' and don't bother to take 30 seconds and make him an offer. The worst that can happen is you might get turned down.
Someone else may get a prize... |
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Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | If you want something bad enough you'll find a way to work out the deal. If a seller posts or doesn't post a price isn't gonna matter to me. |
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Posts: 4536
Location: Flahdaw | Originally posted by stonebobbo:
Unless your entire intent is to provide nourishment to the bottom feeders.
I was called a bottom feeder by someone on this forum, I guess for checking craigslist and posting some of what I find on the for sale section. What is the definition of "bottom feeder" |
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Posts: 4833
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | You say 'bottom feeder' like it might be a bad thing! I think TBFLG (bottom feeders luthier guild) gets a decent amount of support and respect around here. I've purchased from one of our BFLG members and been satisfied with the result.
SOMEone shops at Wal-Mart, SOMEone eats Micky Ds, where there's a market there's someone to serve it.
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As for listing/not listing a price. Where you allow individuals to behave like themselves, they will. Everyone's got an idea of what works and often as not they may be right.
Cheap Trick said it best; Everything Works If You Let It. |
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Posts: 1486
Location: Cincinnati | I don't mind if they don't list a price. It's when they don't list a model, pictures, details, etc. that drives me nuts. |
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Posts: 288
Location: New Hampshire, USA | I get that some of you don't mind that a price isn't listed.
My point wasn't about you guys - it was about all the people that do mind, and won't bother making an offer as a result.
That's the segment of potential buyers that is lost.
Put another way - if a seller lists an asking price, he will potentially get offers from both buyer groups mentioned above. If the seller doesn't list an asking price, he loses one of the above buyer groups and what might be the best (possibly only) potential offer.
Which makes more sense to do? |
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Posts: 1132
Location: NW Washington State | If the seller lists an asking price and it's too high, he'll turn off some buyers. If the asking price is too low, he loses money. Who can say where the sweet spot is on an oddball item like a Viper III? A buyer who's interested and doesn't call or email to check the price might turn out to be the stupid one.
No way to know if the seller is alienating a large segment of the market. He can always relist on Craigslist with an asking price.
-Steve W. |
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Posts: 13996
Location: Upper Left USA | I was ready to jump into the pig-pile until I read bobbo's post. I believe that my colleague from the golden State is a sales professional and is therefore fluent in various varieties of the language of sales.
To a non-salesperson this translates to frustration.
If the Seller has something uncommon or unique and advertises that they have it and if you want it come talk to them. Next the discussion is to confirm that it is what you want.
Lastly is the discussion over "what it will take for you to go home with this item today".
Now, if you have something that is less unique and you try the same tactics I find it repulsive. As we well know - not a lot of people have the knowledge we have about Ovation/Adamas/Kaman/SPS products and to many any multi-hole roundback is a vintage, rare, prototype Ovation probably played by Charlie and Cats Evens himself!
For the record, when the Sales Rep for $&*!@$# Windows and Siding knocks on my door (isn't that Penguin cute?) I tell them that when the need and the funds come together I will search the yellow pages and seek bids.
So consider the cultural differences in sales approaches and if it bothers you then don't give it a second look. Deep down you are bugged because you want the item but on your own terms.
That's life...
And for the record as a founding flayler of the BFLG I am proud of my scrounging abilities, my recycling before Green was cool lifestyle and my collection of used Ovation hardware! |
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Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by MWoody:
For the record, when the Sales Rep for $&*!@$# Windows and Siding knocks on my door (isn't that Penguin cute?) I tell them that when the need and the funds come together I will search the yellow pages and seek bids.
Exactly. I have no problem at work letting phone calls from numbers I don't know go to voice mail. There's no guilt in ignoring unsolicited sales calls. If I'm in the market I'll do the calling. |
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Posts: 416
Location: On the Coast - Halfway between SF & OR | Originally posted by MWoody:
As we well know - not a lot of people have the knowledge we have about Ovation/Adamas/Kaman/SPS products... To me that says it all.
If you have the necessary knowledge such as Woody, Dave and others have of ovations, making an offer isn't a problem. I can make offers on certain classes of firearms but on ovation guitars, I'm still a trading novice.
Recently, I have been wanting a certain ovation - a rare model - and the owner said, "Make me an offer." After trying to do as much research as I could, and being hampered by the fact that I couldn't find anywhere that this model had come up for sale at any point in time, I did make an offer.
But then I got no reply! I didn't know what to do! Had I offended the seller with my offer? Did the seller now see me as some sort of low life and figured I wasn't worth dealing with?
Luckily, when I contacted the seller again, there wasn't a problem; he had simply been busy and actually wanted to give me more info and better pictures before the negotiations continued, but I spent a few frantic days because he is a person I have a great amount of respect for.
Anyway my point is, if you have the needed knowledge, making an offer isn't a problem. But for the rest of us, it can be really worrisome.
By the way, what is a Viper III worth? |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Two Fiddy |
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Posts: 288
Location: New Hampshire, USA | Originally posted by numbfingers:
If the seller lists an asking price and it's too high, he'll turn off some buyers. And if he doesn't list a price and a buyer calls and the price is too high, he'll still turn off that buyer. Same result either way - the price is the determining factor. But by not listing the price, he's getting fewer people even considering it.
If the asking price is too low, he loses money. He should know either what it's worth, or what he's willing to sell it for and be happy. If he wants the market to determine the correct price, he should sell it on the bay.
A buyer who's interested and doesn't call or email to check the price might turn out to be the stupid one. The seller wants to get rid of that item. A buyer can always buy something else instead. The buyer is no worse off for walking away, but the seller has lost a potential sale.
No way to know if the seller is alienating a large segment of the market. I think we absolutely know that he is. Specifically, all the people who won't bother because there's no asking price. We may not know exactly how big that segment is, but it's bigger than zero. Why throw it away?
He can always relist on Craigslist with an asking price. Ah, now he's getting smarter! :D |
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Posts: 1132
Location: NW Washington State | One thing we know for sure is that you don't like this kind of ad. I wonder if anyone has called to find out his price range?
-Steve W. |
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Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | Topic: Why do some CLers not list a price?
Some. I thought that was the question. Not "all". And I thought the question related to guitars.
One thing you want to consider is that you are only looking for ONE buyer. THE buyer. And THE buyer will be looking for what you have and finds you for what you have. "A" buyer is just looking for anything within whatever cash they have burning a hole in their pocket. I don't really have any guitars that suit that mode nor the desire to do business that way.
I wonder how many people commenting here have actually tried to sell a guitar on CL. Posting a price doesn't help matters one whit when you are selling something of quality. Unless you are looking to dump it and simply put it out at a ridiculously low price. Or, if you are selling a piece of junk, then putting a price on something might help you get rid of it.
Prices for guitars on CL are only good if YOU are looking to score a guitar for way under market cost from someone who doesn't know what they have. Essentially, taking advantage of someone. Educated buyers and sellers know what the approximate value of a guitar is and will typically be working within a bracket. With no price on the ad, a buyer will have sought out something on CL because they are in the market and are looking for the right one. And then both parties can make a good deal.
Yes, I make my living in "sales". But it's not a order taker type of sales job ... I best describe what I do is "helping people acquire something of value". Things that have intrinsic value that can't necessarily be compared directly with something else, even though on the surface it might look to be the same. Like a Celebrity and a Custom Elite.
Which is what SOME sellers want to do. Why? Because some of us want our customers to have a positive experience for reasons other than just feeling that they were able to take advantage of someone or were able to buy something cheap. And CL is not eBay ... on CL you have to go do the deal face to face.
Sales is an art. Any moron can give something away at a stupid low price. But to get maximium price for something while still having a very happy buyer who has no remorse over the deal ... that is the art of the deal.
Most people don't get it. That's why the sales people are always the highest paid people in the company. And why the highest earning salespeople have nothing but happy customers who love them. And I guarantee you that none of them sell on price. They help their customer acquire what they want to buy.
That's why some CLers do not list a price. They believe it is the smart way to sell something of value.
P.S. The discussion is totally different if you are a buyer and want to get cheap stuff to flip. Then by all means, troll CL based on price. But I'm not going to sell you a guitar at fair market value in that case anyway, because I'm selling on value and you're buying on price. Oil and water. |
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Posts: 288
Location: New Hampshire, USA | Fair points. |
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Why do some CLers not list a price?
