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Location: los angeles | Hey all!!! I tried to get an answer to this on the "other forum" but my post got buried in a hot contest involving "spot the Ovation" in sound clips.
In all of the history of acoustic guitars, has there ever been a phenomenon where a guitar that was wildly popular among professional players (Ovation) fell into abject unpopularity after decades?
I haven't seen it with any Gibsons or Martins - at least Martin's acoustic models.
I may have seen it in "electrics" when Fender fell out of popularity in the 70's due to the Les Paul ascendancy. But Fender came back when the music changed. I don't think any comparison involving heavy metal guitars :mad: would be valid because they were definitely genre-specific.
I'd love to hear your opinions. thanks.
Bob |
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Location: Slightly northwest of Trader Jim | Trader Jim is going to love this one. Here goes, The Oscar Schmidt co. was popular in the 1920s. They were inexpensive and available. Many blues players in the south used them. I believe that they even made a speical blues model, called "Tree of life". Today they are made by Washburn, still affordable, but considered to be a beginer's guitar. I've owned 2. 1, I sold after 10 yrs. of being my beater and the person that bought it said it was the best sounding guitar for the money he ever bought. Believe me the frets were worn. I now own a new OS "tree of life" as my beater. Is this what you were looking for? |
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Location: los angeles | Thanks for your response. I understand, however, that Oscar S is not the same guitar company but is a sub-brand of another once-venerable but I understand a totally different company - Washburn. I thought that both companies went totally out of business at one time, but only the trademarks were revived. I could be wrong, and it wouldn't be the first time. ;)
Ovation, however, continues to make guitars in the USA, although from what I read here, much more limited.
I wonder if the current Ovation thing is a product of a whole different set of factors - but I do not know what they are. Thus, my questions.
Bob |
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Location: CA | 'abject unpopularity' sounds pretty bad. I can't imagine any guitar that was once popular — thus implying it sounded good — would ever fall into that category unless there was an Adolf Hitler line we don't know about.
I think you could argue that the rise of 'new' brands such as Ovation relegated some Martin and Gibson (Dove, H'bird) guitars to somewhat more 'old school' status than they might have been considered before. But most of those are still well regarded.
As far as style, seems like the parlor guitars are not nearly as popular as they once were. |
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Location: los angeles | Oddball, my bad for using the term "abject unpopularity". I have been reading so many criticisms of Ovations these days, a lot of it acknowledged on this forum, that I got carried away. :( Just so you know, my only steel string guitars are Ovations, and I love them both. As well as this forum.
Peace. ;) Bob |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Your Washburn example is a good one. I had a friend who was into bluegrass years ago tell me that Washburn was the guitar to have. A few years later when I got back into guitars Washburn's reputation and sales were way down. My friend got a Taylor.
Much of it is just marketing. Ovation is selling a lot of guitars, maybe more than they were when it seemed like all the performers were playing them. It's just that they aren't the only game in town any more as far as guitars with preamps. |
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Location: los angeles | Mark, I think I finally get it, and I think you are right about "marketing". I guess by the 1960s, with a TV generation and a surge in record sales, marketing was walking hand in hand or rather leading. Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
Bob |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | You're welcome, but I didn't mean to imply that I know anything about marketing. I probably just repeated something I heard somewhere. |
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Location: los angeles | Mark, regardless, I think there was a change in the 60s in marketing (more saturation) and it has grown ever since. Wherever you heard about the marketing, it now makes sense to me.
Bob |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by Oddball:
...unless there was an Adolf Hitler line we don't know about.
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Location: los angeles | WOW!!!!! |
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Location: Nashville TN. | Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
Originally posted by Oddball:
...unless there was an Adolf Hitler line we don't know about.
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Location: Nashville TN. | Originally posted by enders UKII:
Hey all!!! I tried to get an answer to this on the "other forum" but my post got buried in a hot contest involving "spot the Ovation" in sound clips.
In all of the history of acoustic guitars, has there ever been a phenomenon where a guitar that was wildly popular among professional players (Ovation) fell into abject unpopularity after decades?
I haven't seen it with any Gibsons or Martins - at least Martin's acoustic models.
I may have seen it in "electrics" when Fender fell out of popularity in the 70's due to the Les Paul ascendancy. But Fender came back when the music changed. I don't think any comparison involving heavy metal guitars :mad: would be valid because they were definitely genre-specific.
I'd love to hear your opinions. thanks.
Bob Martin almost went belly up in early 80's
when Ovation was dominating sales.
Gibsons Acoustics were common in the 1930's to 1950's; rare sightes through the 80's & 90's. I see lots big names playing Gibson on Stage (almost all the National acts at the Marion Country Music fest were playing Gibson's)
I still don't see many around here in regional or local players.
Guild sold lots of guitars in the 1960s and 70s.
I don't see many any more around here.
Tastes change.
Its not limited to Ovation.
Tacoma Guitar were everywhere for a few years.
They went from start to number 3 in USA acoustic guitars.
Now the website shows only a few models
and appears NONE are being made.
Existing stock being blown out cheap.
Gretch went out of business.
Then came back as a brand.
Kramer was the #1 in Market share in 1985-86.
Then out of business in 1990.
Back now as part of Gibson.
Triunph Motorcycles were effectivily dead in 1983.
They were Iconic in 50's & 60's
(never totally went of busines a few made from 1984 to 1991 a handfull of Bonniville each year)
Now they have two factorys and selling tons of them worldwide. The relauched in the USA with this image!!!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12423804@N06/1291033224/
Rolled at about the time.
GM in the 1950's had a 60% martket share like ovation hade in the early 80s.
GM could well be bankrupt if not for bail out.
So ya this happens. |
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Location: los angeles | Hi Pez,
Very informative, I guess I'm really late to the party on this, as I was into electric until recently - so the reality is that I didn't really follow the trends. You put it all into perspective for me. I wasn't aware, for example, that Tacoma was such a widely used brand. Still, l have never heard people say that Martins and Gibsons or Tacomas are "fake guitars" like some of the digs I read on Ovations - when many of the "diggers" were former Ovation players (or claim to be). Cheers.
Bob |
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Location: Nashville TN. | Look at it this way it took Martin 170 years to sell 1 million guitars. Ovation did that in less than 40 years.
The fake guitar things just peoples reacting to the fiberglass body.
Ask them about Laminated guitar bodys.
Ask if they are "Fake".
See how they react. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by enders UKII:
In all of the history of acoustic guitars, has there ever been a phenomenon where a guitar that was wildly popular among professional players (Ovation) fell into abject unpopularity after decades? It happens when you are the only game in town. Then other catch up and surpass. In the 70's Ovation was the only choice for plugged in gigging guitars. So you saw them everywhere.
Time passes and others catch up. All of a sudden Ovation isn't the only plugged in game in town and maybe not even the best plugged in game in town.
Sadly, (my opinion) the repercussion of Ovations decades long fancy with all things plugged in is that they never really focussed on how the guitars sounded acoustically. Hence they have had very little to compete with the acoustic likes of Martin and others. |
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Location: los angeles | I bought my 2 Ovation acoustics (both LX) BECAUSE of their acoustic sound. I have never plugged one of them in and don't even know if the pre-amps work. The tuners do. I found that I would have had to spend upwards of $1,500 in addition to what I spent on each Ovation to get a sound that I liked better acoustically. Maybe the LX (if one likes it as much as I do) came too late to undo the "plug in" repercussions? I hope its not that my ears need checking.
Bob |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | This post is ridiculous because ovations are still popular, at least they were in Brooklyn and in Hong Kong last I looked. I think there are lots of places that are ignorant but so what.
Let's talk about guitars that were dead and brought back to life. How about Orpheum? How about National? Those companies are like lazarius and ovation is still alive and last I heard, building other brands as well. You have to live longer, then you'll know. |
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Location: los angeles | "This post is ridiculous" :eek: I assume that refers to my initial post on this thread? :confused: Sorry, didn't mean to offend. I learned a lot from the responses, even the one that started out with that quote. Thanks to all who responded. ;)
Bob |
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Location: CA | OMA — Thanks for the reminder that there are worse things than a Hitler signature model. LOL |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by enders UKII:
Still, l have never heard people say that Martins and Gibsons or Tacomas are "fake guitars" like some of the digs I read on Ovations - when many of the "diggers" were former Ovation players (or claim to be). Cheers.
Bob Coupla Observations -
I don't suppose anyone who spend a coupla K on a Martin is gonna say that they are Fake. And just cuz you owned a Celebrity don't make you a former Ovation Player.
Once people spend Thousands of dollars on a guitar, they must convince themselves that they made the correct choice. Human Nature (a sucky as that is) leads people to belittle anyone who has an opinion other than their own.
I notice that on the OFC people post pics of their newest acquistions... CA's, Taks, Guilds, Collins, Martins, BC Rich (me), and even Taylors! :eek:
Nobody really sez that those posters are idiots.
Go to some of the wood-box fora and tell them about the 1778T you just got a good deal on...
As to trends... Half the Acoustic Guitars that I see on TV are Takamine's nowadays. Bruce Springsteen was playing one on the Daily Show the other night. Trends come and go... Newer artist are playing 'alternative' music that borders on folk music lately. Let the next new Music Idol come on stage with a vintage Pacemaker or Artist and watch the evilBay price Soar! |
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Location: Alagoas, Brazil | Originally posted by Gallerinski:
Originally posted by enders UKII:
In all of the history of acoustic guitars, has there ever been a phenomenon where a guitar that was wildly popular among professional players (Ovation) fell into abject unpopularity after decades? It happens when you are the only game in town. Then other catch up and surpass. In the 70's Ovation was the only choice for plugged in gigging guitars. So you saw them everywhere.
Time passes and others catch up. All of a sudden Ovation isn't the only plugged in game in town and maybe not even the best plugged in game in town.
Sadly, (my opinion) the repercussion of Ovations decades long fancy with all things plugged in is that they never really focussed on how the guitars sounded acoustically. Hence they have had very little to compete with the acoustic likes of Martin and others.
Just my opinion.
Miguel |
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Location: Simpsonville, SC | play what sounds good to YOU....I really could care less what others say, about what I play. BTW...I can play any brand as poorly as I play an Ovation. The O sounds better poorly, ahhh... poorly better to me. |
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Location: los angeles | Last night I went to a local supermarket. On my way from the parking lot, I heard some nice guitar. As I got closer, I saw that it was a guy playing a SSB Celebrity unplugged. It sounded damn good - the tone and his hands. I told him so and dropped some bucks in his case. I won't be criticizing Celebrities anytime soon.
Bob |
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Not the Critics but Ovations and History
