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October 2005
Posts: 4026
Location: Utah | I've noticed that the tuner knobs on the Hamer are a bit loose. There is a null zone if I turn the knob one way and then back the other, where the button turns but the shaft doesn't. Even if the little screw is tightened down very snug, the play is still there but with a bunch of friction. The tuner is definitely snug in the headstock, and the gears seem to mesh properly. It does seem to be a loose fit between shaft and knob.
The tuners are Grover Super Rotomatic.
Is there a simple way to snug the knobs onto the shaft? Like maybe a dab of locktite or other filler material between the shaft and button?
Absent that, what is the pecking order of Schaller vs Grover? Schaller makes the M6 Vintage, a nearly identical replacement unit which I would use if they are available this side of the pond.
Here are the Grovers. Note the screw hole position, which limits the choices for replacements. 
The Schaller M6 Vintage. (I need polished chrome, not gold).
Does anyone know of a source for Schaller domestically? The stock number 5621-S only seems to be available in Europe. Our local mom & pop doesn't do well with custom orders.
Finally, what is a locking tuner? Does it lock the string into the post, or does it prevent the post from turning after the string is in tune? |
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March 2005
Posts: 12750
Location: Boise, Idaho | My Hamer tuners also feel loose compared to my Ovations. My tuners (on the '94 DuoTone) say Hamer on them. I'm not sure if they are slipping or not. I have a problem with all 3 electrics I have seeming out of tune, but I attributed it to my heavy-handedness with light electric strings. |
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December 2001
Posts: 7210
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | You might just tighten the screw that holds on the button. There are usually some washers that add resistance to the feel, they get worn or the button screw just starts to back off. |
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October 2005
Posts: 4026
Location: Utah | Miles, I can tighten down those screws so tight that the knob barely turns due to friction, but the null zone is still there. Being tighter does help reduce slipping out of tune, but doesn't eliminate it. |
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November 2006
Posts: 3969
| Miles I think he tried tightening the shaft screw. Replacing (or adding) the spring washers might work. But don't pay serious attention to me, I know squat about tuners on electrics :D |
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December 2006
Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | If there is no slippage, then it's due to the mechanical hysteresis inherent to greater than zero tolerance manufacturing. 
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January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Stewart MacDonald |
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December 2003
Posts: 1071
Location: Carle Place, NY | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
I have a problem with all 3 electrics I have seeming out of tune, but I attributed it to my heavy-handedness with light electric strings. Check the intonation. It's a very easy DIY with a good electronic tuner. There are a number of articles available on line on how to do it. This advice is from Chip Todd, a knowledgeable electric guitar luthier:
The accepted, and time-tested method of setting intonation is to pick a harmonic over the 12th fret and compare it to the fretted 12th fret note.
I have found this to be an approximation. When trying to get 17" scale length guitars to play in tune, we found it impossible to get the intonation right. Peavey dropped the project years ago.
Last year or two, I felt that I needed to validate the 17" scale guitar design, so I came up with what's proven to be a much more accurate and useful method of setting intonation. In some cases, it agrees with the old method, if one is lucky in using it, but I bet that one can't set all six strings accurately with the old method.
= Set your intonation by the 12th fret harmonic method, first.
=Play a fretted note, let's say, at the 9th fret, then play the note one octave up, (21st fret). Do they sound an octave apart? I've found that about 30% of the time, they don't. If you set the intonation to where the 21st fretted note sounds like an octave above the 9th fret, that will be sufficiently intoned. If you re-check the old 12th fret method now, it'll still indicate perfect intonation. This points out the increased accuracy of the octave method.
It's even better to use a gauge when using the octave method, but that's splitting hairs, because it's pretty easy to hear the "not-an-octave" note.
==Ideally, checking at the 12th fret and the 24th fret would be more accurate, only we all don't have 24 frets to use. (5th to 17th fret is better than the 12th fret harmonic, but the higher you go up the neck, the more accurate it gets).
Try this and I know you'll have better intonation. |
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October 2005
Posts: 4026
Location: Utah | Mitch, thanks for that great method. Gonna give it a try. |
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March 2005
Posts: 12750
Location: Boise, Idaho | One of the "problems" with the older DuoTones is that the intonation can't be adjusted. They have the Ovation acoustic pickup. |
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December 2003
Posts: 1071
Location: Carle Place, NY | Originally posted by FlySig:
Finally, what is a locking tuner? Does it lock the string into the post, or does it prevent the post from turning after the string is in tune? Locking tuners lock the string to the post. Several companies make them. Sperzel's are popular but not an easy retrofit because they require drilling a hole for a post. I like the Planet Wave Auto Trim.
http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Planet-Waves-Auto-Tr... |
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Loose Grover tuner knobs.
