|
|
Joined:
April 2013
Posts: 13
| Hi,
All my Ovations came with shims under the saddle. By removing them, and warping the neck by tightening the truss rod, I found I could get really low action. But I wonder, is this safe for the neck in the long run. The reason I ask is because my 12 string Balladeer is impossible to play, unless the action is really low! This is usuall for 12 string guitars, yes? I tried using 9 gauge strings, but I find they tend to go a little sharp when I press on the them. I find this with most 9 guage, actually, so went over to Cobalts on my strat? But are there any good 9's out there that maintain pitch when you press hard?.
Wes |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2010
Posts: 823
Location: sitting at my computer | no disrespect intended, but since you're asking, I'm assuming you're unfamiliar with process of properly setting up a guitar and likely don't have tools to do it. Although there are a number of youtube videos out there that explain the process and specific measurements that need to be done... IMHO... I'd highly recommend taking the guitar(s) to an experienced luthier and having them do a full set-up for you instead of the DIY approach. You'll be amazed how much easier it is to play a properly set-up guitar. So many out there aren't. my 2¢ 
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2013
Posts: 13
| But dude, I did that already, on a number of occasions, and the action is always too high?! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 4535
Location: Flahdaw | have you tried tuning down to D, softening things up a bit? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2010
Posts: 486
Location: Suisun City, Ca | <p>Wes I have an old Elite 12 string (1538). The action is as low as I could want for the strength of my picking/strumming action so there is no buzz. It is (maybe) the easiest 12 string I've ever played. Not as easy as a 6 string, of course. I don't think you could hurt the neck on my 1538, virtually no matter what you did to the truss rod. Ovation necks are beasts! If I'm wrong, there are other's here much more knowledgeable than me. As a note, I've only done very minor truss adjustment on mine. (Like a quarter turn) It was virtually perfect as soon as I got it from someone on this forum.</p><p> </p><p>***edit -Oh, I use EJ-38's but right now there are Adamas 1818E .010s on there</p>
Edited by AstroDan 2013-04-11 5:28 PM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2008
Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | The reason the strings seem to go sharp when you press on them is that with strings that light, you are unintentionally bending them. Happens to me whenever I pick up an electric guitat because I am used to the heavier strings on my acoustics. Try Martin 10's. I know everyone has a preference in strings but Martins are a little bit easier on the fingers than D'Adarios or any other brand I have tried. And they sound SO good on Ovations.
Of course when you change to a heavier string you (or your luthier) will need to adjust the neck and possibly the saddle (add or subtract shims). But he should be able to get the action nice and low for you. And you should be there when he does it. Everyone has a different attack. If you play hard you will need higher action to prevent buzzing. If you play more softly you can have the action so low that a guy with a pick will swear it buzzes all over the place, while you will be able to play buzz-free. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2010
Posts: 823
Location: sitting at my computer | sorry thumos, but I cringed a bit when I read "warping the neck" with the truss rod. =8-@ thumos - ... and the action is always too high?! Did you ask the luthier why? Perhaps the setup was done to a "standard" factory setting rather than the custom lowered setting you seek. ?? A good luthier ought to be discussing the setup with you and even helping you with string selection. imho As Bob suggested, tuning down to D-Standard (D-G-C-F-A-D) will lessen the string tension, making it a bit easier to fret the strings. That's how I've tuned my 12 string and it hasn't exhibited any structural issues. The Case For D-Standard Guitar Tuning http://theguitarshow.wordpress.com/2009/12/29/the-case-for-d-standard-guitar-tuning/ "play buzz-free" - isn't that the motto at Rock Star Rehab?  |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 112
Location: Bristol England | Why do you need to 'press hard' on the strings. You only need to press hard enough on a string to get a clear note from the fret you are using. Light gauge - low action - hardly any pressure - heavy gauge high action - lots of pressure. FWIW I'm on the side of Canterburystrings and Jeffrey on this. If the guitar has been set up by a good luthier with the strings you are using it should be right and I would tend to look at your 'playing style' rather than the guitar. A neck can be 'bowed' either convex or concave by a truss rod being too tight or too slack but the term 'warped. means 'twisted'. I am not sure, but stand to be corrected, that a wrongly adjusted truss rod would not cause this phenomenom. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2013
Posts: 13
| Did you ask the luthier why? Perhaps the setup was done to a "standard" factory setting rather than the custom lowered setting you seek. ?? A good luthier ought to be discussing the setup with you and even helping you with string selection. imho
As Bob suggested, tuning down to D-Standard (D-G-C-F-A-D) will lessen the string tension, making it a bit easier to fret the strings. That's how I've tuned my 12 string and it hasn't exhibited any structural issues.
The Case For D-Standard Guitar Tuning
http://theguitarshow.wordpress.com/2009/12/29/the-case-for-d-standa...
Well I never knew that. Great link. Will give that a shot on my next string change. Thanks |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4028
Location: Utah | How high is the nut? It seems most guitars come from the factory with the nut slots too high, which means the strings have to stretch downward a lot when you play a note in the first 5 frets, and thus the note is sharp.
A simple test is to tune your guitar to where you normally do. Then put a capo between the 2nd and 3rd frets. You can do it without a capo if you don't have one, but the capo makes it easier. The strings make a straight line from the top of the 2nd fret to the nut, passing over the 1st fret. There should be barely any space between the top of the 1st fret and the bottom of the string.
Think of it like this. All of the frets are at the same height, so there is zero space if you do this anywhere else on the guitar. Yet the nut is cut higher than the 1st fret? Think of the nut as Fret Zero. Why shouldn't it be as low as all the frets?
In reality it does need to be slightly higher because the string vibrates in a larger arc than when it is held shorter (fretted) further up the neck. But the Zero Fret only needs to be ever so slightly higher than the 1st.
I do a tap test. Capo it as described above. Now tap it gently with a finger onto the fret. You should be able to just barely feel the string move before it taps the fret. Then look with good reading glasses on or using a magnifying glass if you have one. You should be able to see only the tiniest gap there.
Chances are you can improve intonation and playability substantially by getting the nut slots lowered some.
Edited by FlySig 2013-04-13 10:25 AM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2005
Posts: 616
Location: cincinnati, ohio | Agree 110% with FlySig. The nut is the LAST place most people think of when an action adjustment is needed, and it's usually the main culprit. There's this tendency to want to torque the truss rod before anything else, and that's flirting with disaster. I've seen so-called "technicians" do that at music stores. Years ago (42 to be exact ) I bought a new 1971 Balladeer from Willis Music. I wasn't too crazy about the action. It had a stack of shims under the saddle; I took those out and it played MUCH better, but I still wanted it to be even better. I was having trouble on the first 4 or 5 frets. A friend of mine recommended a local luthier. I hadn't touched the truss rod (I knew better). He tweaked that ever so slightly. Then he took a set of special files and very carefully filed the nut slots.
Problem solved; it played like butter... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2013
Posts: 13
| Hundreds rof years experience, all at my finger tips. I am lost without you guys! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 112
Location: Bristol England | I used to have an eko 12 string where the 'plastic nut' was merely a guide for the strings and the actual nut was a fret! Fabulous action as long as it was set up right - which it was! |
|
| |
Ovation Guitars - Action, Strings and Shims
