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Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 30
| Any and all help appreciated.
I am reviving a BW with original pickups but NO active electroinics. My problem is, how to wire the existing original pickups. Neck PU color is Red & Brown / Bridge is Green and Black. So which Neck / Bridge / is Hot is my question?
Thank you in advance! |
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December 2003
Posts: 13984
Location: Upper Left USA | There are schematics over at www.ovationtribute.com
This may help too:
Pup Wire Decoder |
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Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 30
| Nope....nothing there to help me!
Any other help would help Lots! |
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March 2006
Posts: 482
Location: enid, ok | How the pups are going to work w/o preamp would be news to me. |
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September 2006
Posts: 30
| I was hoping to wire the PU's conventionaly and mount the tone & volume pot directly to the Pickguard with a 3 way mini toggle selector and a two way mini for some kind of sound variation.
I am assuming one of the two leads goes to ground, any ideas what color is hot?
Again the neck has Red & Brown
The Bridge has Green & Black
Thanx |
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October 2005
Posts: 4028
Location: Utah | If you play the pickups individually, the polarity won't matter at all. It's only when you have them both on at the same time that it makes a difference in the sound. One way will sound full and strong, the other a bit thin a weak. The thin and weak sound means that the pups are out of phase with each other. If that happens, just swap around the leads on one of the pickups.
Black is always ground in electronics (except for those oddball rare exceptions and house wiring), so as a complete guess, I would go with black and brown being ground. |
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October 2005
Posts: 4028
Location: Utah | Someone had posted detailed info on the original preamps a while ago. Does anyone have a link? The page had schematics, a circuit board layout, and component values. |
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August 2006
Posts: 3145
Location: Marlton, NJ | Rolo - I have a set of original BW pups - they both have three wires - black, red and what looks like a ground strap though it's not connected to the ground wire (black). I don't get a reading when I connect a voltmeter to the third wire - only when I connect to black and red. I get a reading of around 7.8 on both pups. |
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June 2007
Posts: 270
Location: Yorkshire, England | Hi, Rolo -I've had quite a lot of dealings with B/W & Deacon electronics but the colour scheme you mention doesn't ring any bells with me. I don't think there's any reason why these pickup's shouldn't work as stand alone units, ie without the preamp wired in, but I've never tried it. If it was me, I would take the red wire and the green wire as hot and wire up as normal to volume & tone s/w, with a 3 way selector switch in between.(Everything you need is on-board already, if they're working OK) You could wire in a coil tap if you felt ambitious, but you would need 4 wires from each pick up. (Or tap it your self) I've got quite a few wiring diagrams for this if you can't get hold of any. |
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December 2001
Posts: 7211
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Those pickups will work fine without the preamp. The "pre-amp" is more "tone control" than boost or matching. |
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January 2003
Posts: 1498
Location: San Bernardino, California | - Crimsonlake
The third wire is for grounding the case for the pickup. The reason it's not hooked to the small black wire is so that you can wire the pickups out of phase.
- rolo
Judging by those colors, I'd say that the pickups you have have been rewound. Also there are two types of pickups that were used on the Breadwinner, the large single coil type and the mini-humbucker type. |
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Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 30
| Thank you all!!
I managed to hook it all up as advised and have sound...not the best sound.
Is there a remote possibility that someone here has the preamp I need even in non-working order?
Thanx |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7211
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Rolo... which pickups do you have? The large single coil pickups or the small "mini humbucker" style pickups? If you have the smaller humbuckers, they do need the preamp. That's just my opinion of course, but I really don't like the sound of those without the preamp. |
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June 2007
Posts: 270
Location: Yorkshire, England | Hi Rolo, sorry things are not turning out as expected for you - Noticed Crimsonlake had said that he'd metered the p/ups & got 7.8 Ohmms from each of them, this is quite respectable & should in theory, give you a decent sound level at least. If you aren't getting much volume, I wonder if you've got the heart to swap the wiring around - Low volume would indicate to me one coil/phase working against another, (increased resistance) or both p/ups wired in series. I think trying to repair a faulty preamp is a bit like trying to nail jelly to a wall, but best of luck! |
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January 2006
Posts: 1112
Location: NW Washington State | DC resistance doesn't tell you much about the output or sound of a pickup, unless you're comparing it to another pickup that's similar in every other detail. An Ovation example: a Viper pickup that measures about 10K is much louder than a BW/Deacon mini pickup that measures about 20K. Both are in the same Viper. The 20K BW/Deacon is an oddity I purchased from the factory years ago. I have no idea why it's wound that way, but I have two of 'em.
If I recall correctly, the stock mini pickups on my Breadwinner and Deacon measure about 10K DC resistance. Their output is not particularly high compared to passive pickups I've tried.
You might try something like this preamp from eBay: GFS Preamp It should be possible to replace the mid pot with some resistors and a switch so you could get a mid cut and/or boost in the same spot where the original was. I've never tried any GFS stuff so I have no opinion on the quality. The last couple auctions for these closed at $21.50 and $25, so it's not much of a risk.
-Steve W. |
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June 2007
Posts: 270
Location: Yorkshire, England | Sorry, but the impedence rating of a pickup will give a good indication of how it's going to sound, how else would you calculate it? How else would you know what you were buying? I've fitted 2 pickups to one of my Breadwinners, the neck is 16 ohm - before I fitted it I KNEW it would peel the wallpaper off the walls when it was cranked up! On the other hand it's nothing to have a 60's strat pickup that's rated around 6 ohms. Horses for courses! |
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January 2006
Posts: 1112
Location: NW Washington State | Originally posted by Captain Black:
Sorry, but the impedence rating of a pickup will give a good indication of how it's going to sound, how else would you calculate it? Let's just say I disagree. I'll save the detailed argument for the electro-geek-guitar-test equipment forum. Where is that anyway?
-Steve W. |
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March 2006
Posts: 482
Location: enid, ok | Hey, while we're here, what do you guys recommend for cleaning the volume and tone pots? Mine needs it bad. Is it different with the pre-amp? |
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January 2006
Posts: 1112
Location: NW Washington State | Radio Shack Tuner Cleaner is the old standby. Deoxit has a lot of followers. I like MG Chemicals Super Contact Cleaner because it's available in an aerosol or liquid so I can inhale or drink it (don't try this at home).
Whatever you use, don't use too much. It makes a mess and some pots won't feel as smooth if you over-clean them.
-Steve W. |
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June 2007
Posts: 270
Location: Yorkshire, England | Disagree if ye like, but ye cannie change the laws 'a physics ! |
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January 2006
Posts: 1112
Location: NW Washington State | Originally posted by Captain Black:
Disagree if ye like, but ye cannie change the laws 'a physics !
Commentary by pickup designer Bill Lawrence
Pickup Impedance and Other Musings... |
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January 2006
Posts: 1112
Location: NW Washington State | Rolo, did you figure out your wiring problem? If not, maybe you could post a picture of the pickups and wiring you've got.
-Steve W. |
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Joined:
June 2007
Posts: 270
Location: Yorkshire, England | Thanks very much for the most-informative Teach-in link, but I knew pretty much all of that anyway,(I have constructed/wound and fitted my own p/ups to guitars on various occasions) Correct me if I'm wrong but I NEVER mentioned anything about dc resistance. Any wire, wrapped around a magnet or otherwise WILL HAVE A RESISTANCE of some description. (Didn't we all know that)?? If you go out now and buy a pickup you may notice it will be rated.
(14k, 16k, 7k, matched sets, texas specials, wax coated, whatever) If this rating didn't make a difference, then, by definition, ALL pickups would sound the same regardless how they were constructed and the manufacturers would be wasting their time. |
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Joined:
June 2007
Posts: 270
Location: Yorkshire, England | By the way .... re the link pickup impedance & other musings... I've never read such a load of 'state the obvious' drivell ! |
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December 2001
Posts: 7211
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | A LOT of elements affect the sound of a pickup and on it's own, impedance is not telling anyone anything... However knowing which pickups they are, AND knowing the impedance does.
Just as example... if he has mini-humbuckers... which are usually around 10K... and they are measuring only 7K.. something is amiss. An Ovation mini-humbucker that measures 7K will not be as responsive as an Ovation mini-humbucker that is 10K.
However... if lets say we're comparing a Seymour Duncan Mini-Humbucker to an Ovation mini-humbuker.... knowing the SD is 7K, 10K or 100K isn't going to let us know if it's louder, quieter or really anything of it's sound compared to the Ovation mini-humbucker.
I hope this clears it up. |
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Breadwinner Wiring Question / Problem
