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January 2008
Posts: 49
Location: Canada | Hi all,
In an attempt to get to know Ovations a bit better and narrow down my search, I've played a bunch over the past couple of weeks.
I've noticed a peculiar effect of bowl depth and design to my perception of acoustic perception when playing each particular guitar. Some shallow bowls, seemed more resonant than some deep bowls (from my playing perspective).
When I played a ADII (deep bowl), it didn't seem to project very well. However, when I handed it to a music store employee, and stood in front of him while he played, it was a night and day difference. He mentioned that the deep bowls focus the projection, etc.
Can someone comment on this fact? Still trying to decide between a Deep Bowl ADII and a Deep Countour Legend.
Someone at Kaman also remarked to me that the LX series with Scalloped X and Deep Contour has made a big difference acoustically. Do you share this opinion? |
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Joined:
June 2006
Posts: 7307
Location: South of most, North of few | Top material and bracing patterns probably contribute as much to it as the depth of the bowl. For my money, the deeper bowl the better, acoustically speaking. Plugged in, it doesn't matter much. As far as the contour bowl, my jury's still out. I had one contour and I wasn't overly impressed. I still like the hand laid glass bowls. |
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Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 48
Location: Omaha, Nebraska | I'm on board with the Trader-man. I prefer my deep bowls over anything else. I will say that my 2006 FKOA Collector's and the contour bowl has better "low" range response than any Ovation that I've ever played. I just miss my 5-piece neck with it so it has not become my complete favorite.
I am impressed with the contour by its' nature, but again Jim's right that the sound will vary depending on the top and bracing. I would love to have a contour bowl with an older 5-piece neck. I may have to build that myself...
Good luck. |
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March 2005
Posts: 12750
Location: Boise, Idaho | Me, too. I like the deep bowls better. I thought the whole idea of the roundback was to focus the sound back out through the top. If the roundback was the key factor, the depth shouldn't matter, but the deeper bowls sure seem to project the bass notes further. Again, if the round shape was the key factor, the contour bowl would be inconsistent with that theory. I only played one contour bowl for a few minutes. It had a Koa top and I didn't think is sounded very lively and didn't find the contour bowl to be comfortable. I'd like to hear a 2005 Collectors. Maybe now that I've expanded my contour the contour bowl would fit me better. |
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September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | All three of my full size acoustics are deep bowls. |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | The projection qualities may have something to do with the deep bowl being much more 'bowl-like' while the SS bowls are flatter. There's an acoustic difference between a glass mixing bowl and a glass casserole dish. Don't ask me how I know. |
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January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Have the store guy play all the ones you're thinking about to you. You listen, with your back turned.
I've been playing a deep Adamas cutaway recently. Love it. |
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Joined:
January 2008
Posts: 49
Location: Canada | M.B, that's a good idea. Unlike many other guitars, I found the Ovations to vary considerably from the perspective of the player vs. the audience.
From this thread, it appears most prefer the old Deep Bowl vs. the Deep Contour. Is that correct? |
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October 2007
Posts: 283
Location: Portland, OR | Interesting that my '78 Glen 12-string sings louder than any and seems to project better with a mid-depth bowl. Course it has 12 strings, and also has kind of an oddball "fan" bracing. |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Arc Angel, many here haven't had the opportunity to get their hands on a contour bowl yet. |
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March 2005
Posts: 12750
Location: Boise, Idaho | I know that Dave and some others love the contour bowl and Dave at least doesn't have a belly that fills out the contour. I don't know about the sound. I just wasn't impressed with how I fit the contour bowl.
The player vs. the audience perception is striking. A multi-hole Adamas or Ovation might sound bass-biased to the player, but very balanced to the audience. Especially if you tend to lean your ear over the holes in the upper shoulder.
A wood-backed guitar might sound great to the player, who "feels" the vibrations of the back and sides of the guitar, but it may sound very thin to the audience. |
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Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 48
Location: Omaha, Nebraska | This has been an interesting discussion. There are two things I can say with confidence:
(1) As I tell my wife....They each have their own unique, wonderful sound! That's the excuse for so many hanging around the house.
(2) The Ovation "haters" out there won't be swayed by Deep, Contour, Square or whatever in the future. They are ignorant of real quality in life... (please note I said "ignorant" not "stupid"....I can always hope that someday they can be re-educated in the righteousness of the "O")
Best Regards, |
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Posts: 1445
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | sligoman;
Your '78 GC 12 would have a deep bowl, not mid. |
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January 2008
Posts: 49
Location: Canada | Mark in Boise,
Can you comment on the multi sound hole vs. round sound hole Ovations in terms of dispersal of sound from an audience perspective. Do you find the round being more "focused"?
Once again, sadly, its quite difficult to get to play more than a couple of USA Ovations in my area at any one story (if any at all).
Your comments on wood backed acoustic ring true. I have a few exceptionally light and resonant flamenco guitars. I really like Ovations for their playability but have found that its a little more difficult for me to decide on models given that the player vs. audience perspective throws me off a bit in terms of perception. |
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Joined:
June 2006
Posts: 7307
Location: South of most, North of few | Originally posted by TR McCoy:
I'm on board with the Trader-man. I prefer my deep bowls over anything else. I will say that my 2006 FKOA Collector's and the contour bowl has better "low" range response than any Ovation that I've ever played. I just miss my 5-piece neck with it so it has not become my complete favorite.
I am impressed with the contour by its' nature, but again Jim's right that the sound will vary depending on the top and bracing. I would love to have a contour bowl with an older 5-piece neck. I may have to build that myself...
Good luck. The Koa only has sound holes on the bass side, so it will sound a little stronger on the low end, plus the Koa seems to sound a little "darker". I loved mine BTW, now slydog has it. |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Must not have loved it enough... |
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August 2005
Posts: 3736
Location: Sunshine State, Australia | I've got a deep bowl multihole and a contour bowl single hole and if I could only own one guitar, the single hole contour would be my choice. It just sounds clearer to the player. They both sound great from in front.
Luckily, I don't have to choose just one guitar. :D
I read a review of the '06 Koa recently and the reviewer didn't think very highly of its acoustic qualities.
My '05 has everything I want in an acoustic guitar. (Well, until I played Schroeder's ute. :( ) |
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Posts: 12750
Location: Boise, Idaho | AA, you're asking the wrong guy. I never heard an Adamas till I bought the Ute and then it was another 6 months or so before I ever heard how sweet it sounded when somebody else played it. I've never had an audience comment on the sound of my guitars, which may be because they were being polite, or it may be that I can only think of a couple of times that I've played in public.
I hear sound differences when my daughter plays my guitars, but I couldn't describe them in terms of differences between multihole and single hole. I can hear the difference in bowl depths, however. SS bowl sounds thin. The artist depth isn't comparable because it's a nylon string, but I like the depth of the Classic nylon string much better (deep bowl and cedar top). My mid-depth and my daughters sound tight and very similar, even though hers is a Celebrity. Both are laminate topped multiholes. The 1537 is mellow and warm, the 87 is a bit more crisp. The CL and Folklore are boomy, but woody. The Ute and OFC are also boomy, but more crisp or chimey. Forgot the Matrix. It is also boomy, but it sounds to me that I can hear the metallic sound of the fretboard.
I know you don't want a description of the electrics. Both of them sound like crap, because that's the only way I can play an electric. |
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June 2006
Posts: 7307
Location: South of most, North of few | Originally posted by The Wabbit Formerly Known As Waskel:
Must not have loved it enough... The life of a trader.... ;) |
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January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Arc, you're probably right but I have a deep old one and a new deep contoured, they're both fine. I been playing boxes mostly of late but either one is good. Look at the rest of the package too. |
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January 2008
Posts: 49
Location: Canada | M.B., I'm basically looking at a ADII or a CL 2079LX. Hence the question of bowls, bracing, LX neck and pre-amp ;-) |
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August 2004
Posts: 604
Location: Tampa, FL | In my experience:
1984ish Legend, center sound hole, deep bowl, A bracing, monster crack from bridge to bottom edge - this is my favorite guitar for folksy, pop-style music. Nice full bass with even treble makes chord based music sound best.
2005ES Collectors, center sound hole, contour bowl, LX bracing - This is my church and general practice guitar. Very even volume and tone on all strings. Best for finger style or 'accurate' flat picking/strumming. Can be sensitive to how you hold it. Somewhat sensitive to damping when you hold the contour against your body. The contour seems to make me press the top more than others which also tends to damp the sound. Very comfortable playing standing up, less so when sitting.
1994 1768C, multi soundhole, deep bowel, Elite - best for finger style. Impressive sustain, very even tone, sounds louder (to me) to player. Tone seems to not be terribly sensitive to playing position/stance. I find the round backs easier to play sitting down.
Again these are all just my impressions, you have have received full value for your investment. They are all based on unplugged performance.
Plugged in, I love the XLR on the 2005ES (and formerly on a 6591 I once had) OP-PRO + XLR or Optima + XLR is my favorite plugged in config. |
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April 2006
Posts: 1138
Location: CT | Buy an Adamas I. You'll never need another guitar. You'll WANT another one, but you won't need it. |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Ain't that the truth. |
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Posts: 482
Location: enid, ok | Need vs. want. Hmmm... |
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Strangely Ovation? Different Bowls and "Perception of Projection"
