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January 2008
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Location: albuquerque | Hi everyone. I have been searching in here for hours and am posting for some help in setting up my 1986 1719 CL, non-cuttaway sunburst. My first guitar was a 1976 bi-centennial that I played for many years before it was stolen from my home in 1986. I then purchased this 1719 which is a beautiful guitar. Over the past year the guitar has started to develop a buzz. So I am hoping you can help me do something about it. The action on the 6th string at the 12th fret is right at 3/32". The buzz is primarily on the 4th and 5th strings from the 4th fret to the 13th fret, when you get to 14 it goes away. I laid a metal straight edge from the 1st to the 14th fret and using spark plug gap shims I could slide a .012" between the frets and the straight edge from the 4th to the 13th frets. A slight warp. I tightened the "Kaman" bar as much as I feel comfortable and it did help. The gap went down to .009". So what do I do now? I can't tighten the bar any more and I'm still getting a buzz. Does my neck need to be reset? what is involved in doing that? I appreciate your replies. |
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Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | It may not be the frets. Check EVERYTHING from top to bottom including the machines (esp nuts), wires jacks etc. |
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Posts: 7307
Location: South of most, North of few | I've actually had a buzzing sound that was very hard to pin down. It turned out to be a couple of pieces of 2" masking tape that were used to hold the braces in place while gluing (I guess) during original manufacture. They had come a little loose and were making a loose paper sound like a buzz. I removed them, and all is well. |
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Posts: 70
Location: kansas | Check to see if the nut & saddle setups are similar to this setup info at these sites:
Saddle & nut Setup info at:
http://www.weedsellit4u.com/weedsellit4u/contentpages/HowToos/Measu...
http://www.weedsellit4u.com/weedsellit4u/contentpages/HowToos/Guita...
Also here's what Ovation says about setups:
"Standard action" for all Ovation steel string guitars is 6/64" at the bass E string and 4/64" at the treble E string (measured as the distance between the bottom of the string and the top of the 12th fret). This action is normally achieved with 1-3 shims beneath the saddle.
your 3/32 (6/64) at the treble E from the top of the fret to the bottom of the string at the 12th fret? - thats a bit hi...
I'm adjusting the bridge height on my CSE44(made in Korea, modified in the USA) to about 5/64 and have not had any string buzz(I'll try to go as low as 2/32 at both E's).
maybe you need to level your frets?
Try a search on Ebay for fret leveling and read about the Thomas & Ginex tool.
It worked for me...
later... |
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January 2008
Posts: 7
Location: albuquerque | I'll keep looking and listening but it sure sounds like a string buzz on a fret. Kevin, the 3/32 is at the bass E, sorry. I'll look at the nut but doesn't that usually cause an open string buzz? I'm thinking about just barely filing down the 14th fret but something inside me says that is probably not the right thing to do. Thanks for the help guys. |
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Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | are all frets seated properly? |
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Posts: 7
Location: albuquerque | I'll take a closer look tonight, but yes the frets seem to be seated properly. It just seems like if I could tighten the bar a little more it would take care of the small warp, which I'm pretty sure is the cause of the buzz. I just thought this may be a common thing. |
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Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | The last thing you want this to be is a neck reset... we're just trying to cover all the bases before you have to go to a reset... |
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Posts: 7
Location: albuquerque | ok thanks Jeff, I appreciate any help. |
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March 2005
Posts: 12750
Location: Boise, Idaho | I had one high fret at about the 14th that played off that fret from about 10 up to the high fret. In other words, I got the same note on the high E string whether I played the 10th, 11, 12, 13 or 14th fret. Then 14, 15 etc. were correct. It buzzed on notes lower than the 10th fret.When I put a straight edge on it, I could rock it back and forth over the 14th fret. That's how I could tell it was a high fret. The fretboards often taper down from the 14th fret up. Yours sounds like a bow that should be taken out with the truss rod adjustment, but check with a straight edge to see if you can find one fret that is higher than the rest. I could see where the fret was lifting on mine and tapped it down. Works fine now. |
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Posts: 1071
Location: Carle Place, NY | I could be wrong here, but I always thought that if the strings buzz in the middle frets you either have to increase the relief/bow in the neck or raise the action.
I'd try loosening the Kaman bar and/or adding a thin shim under the saddle.
According to the factory, relief in the neck ranges from .005" to .015" |
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Location: albuquerque | ok now I'm a little confused:
First, the Ovation manual says action should be 6/64" from the bottom of the bass E string to the top of the fret. By top of the fret do they mean the actual metal fret or the fingerboard. I guess they say fret they mean fret. I measured the 3/32" from the fingerboard to the bottom of the string. Is my action just too low?
Second, in order to increase the bow in the neck or correct a warped condition the manual says to tighten the Kaman bar, not loosen it. Am I reading that correctly?
Third, if I am measuring my action from the wrong spot and I need to shim my saddle what should I use to do that? I think I have two of three shims under there now and do not have any more to put in there, can I buy those somewhere?
Thanks for all the help. |
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November 2003
Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | THAT'S the problem you need to measure from the crown of the 12th fret to the bottom of the bass string... so, yes, your action may, in fact, be too low.
to shim you can use, anything "CreditCard"-like. Hotel keycards and such. |
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December 2003
Posts: 1071
Location: Carle Place, NY | 3/32" means from the top of the 12th fret to the bottom of the 6th string. It sounds like your action is too low.
Don't do any more truss rod adjustments.
I've got lots of spare shims, but almost any hard plastic will work, like the phony credit cards that you get with junk mail. If you want a factory shim, PM me and I'll send a few to you. |
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Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Try raising your bridge.
Top of fret.
Righty tighty, lefty lossey. Lose relaxes the neck making the stings pull with less resistance from the truss rod. Hence more bow.
Aluminum can could work as a shim and / or a credit card.
You need a book like Dan Erlwine's Guitar Player Repair Guide. |
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Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Top of fret means top of the "wire" |
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Posts: 7
Location: albuquerque | ok, duuhhhh..... Sorry, I guess I should have thought of that to begin with. I'll shim it tonight and let you know. Thanks for all the help. |
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November 2003
Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | you may need to de-tweak the rod, but wait and see... |
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Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Also, after every adjustment to truss rod I give it night to settle in. |
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March 2005
Posts: 12750
Location: Boise, Idaho | I hope it's an easy fix. My 1537 has a bit of fret buzz on the low E string if I hit it pretty hard, but I hardly ever use a pick on it and it and the action is so low that I love it for fingerstyle. Adding a shim should get rid of the buzz if you don't mind a little higher action. I think the shims from the factory come in a couple different widths. Like Mitch, I have several extras in guitar cases that I could send if you can't make one. |
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Posts: 15654
Location: SoCal | Take an old credit card and cut it to fit fully under the saddle. Should solve your problem.... |
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January 2008
Posts: 7
Location: albuquerque | Thanks everyone for the help. I shimmed the bridge last night with an old Costco card. I now have 5 shims in there but the measurement from the bottom of the bass E string to the top of the 12 fret is still slightly less then 3/32" so the action is still fairly low. I loosened the Kaman rod a little, that makes me feel better since it was pretty tight and the measurement at the 5th fret when pushing down at the 1st and 13th is right at .01" which is well within the factory acceptable warp of between .005 and .015. The action is still sweet and I'm really happy with the set up. I still have a slight buzz on the 2nd string at the 4th and 5th fret but it seems to be only those two frets. So that is a huge difference from where things where. After 20 years this guitar has a deep rich sound and plays as well as my friends brand new Martin. By far the sweetest guitar I've ever played though is a friends Grandfathers 1965 D35. This thing has sweat and grime built up on the neck that my friend will not let me clean because he says its his way of remembering his Granddad playing that guitar every night. I don't blame him. I sure love playing that guitar.
I do have one last question if I could bug you guys one more time. The manual gives a measurement of Saddle height from the bottom of the string to the top of the bridge. It doesn't really seem like I can make this measurement with my staggered saddle and rounded bridge. Am I looking at that right? Thanks again. |
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March 2005
Posts: 12750
Location: Boise, Idaho | Five shims seems a bit much, unless they are awfully thin, but if the action seems right and you're getting good sound from the guitar, that's more important than numbers.
I didn't know about the measurement from the bridge to the strings. I'll have to check that, because I have a problem with my Custom Legend. I assume it means the clearance between the bridge and each string, just like you took the measurements for the action between the top of the fret and the bottom of the string. Measure the space between the bridge in the front of the saddle and the string. You could do it for each string I suppose. |
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Posts: 482
Location: enid, ok | This credit-card infatuation that some of you guys have; I don't know if that's healthy. |
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