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November 2006
Posts: 3969
| Well, the angry smiley (isn’t that an oxymoron?) and the title of this post say it all. The 1619 I snagged on eBay the other day arrived today, and I’m less than pleased with the seller’s honesty and forthrightness in describing the condition of the guitar. According to the seller, the guitar was only used “in a few studio sessions” and “kept in the closet for the last 8 years.” If so, I don’t want to go anywhere near that studio, or that closet!
Before bidding I had asked the seller very specific questions about the condition of the guitar, including finish problems, neck and fret problems, if it had been dropped, condition of the top, etc., etc. You know, all the standard questions. He assured me that there was little wear and that most of it was “perfect,” although he did mention that the volume knob was missing. I also asked him if I could send him a hardshell case for him to ship the guitar back if I should wind up winning the auction, since he advertised in the listing a gig bag for the guitar. He agreed to that, seemed pleasant enough in his reply, so I put in a lowball bid and wound up winning.
As you’ll see by the following pictures, his description of the guitar and assurances of its condition are far from reality. My first inclination of trouble came when the UPS man delivered a bare case with electrical tape wrapped around the clasps. I had sent the case boxed with peanuts and bubble wrap inside the box to secure it, same as if the case actually contained a guitar, fully expecting that he’d use the same material (and technique by example) to send it back. I even wrote detailed instructions on how he should pack & ship it back in the event he’d never shipped a guitar & included those inside the case. Why didn’t I get it back boxed? Good question. My second scare was when I carried the case inside and set it on a table I could hear rattling inside!
Well, the good news is that he removed the strings and packed wadded-up newspaper on either side of the neck, so the neck didn’t snap off in transit. There’s also no belt rash on the bowl, in fact the bowl is in really good shape. The top itself is flat, no bowing or collapsing anywhere. The frets show some, but not excessive wear and the fretboard seems to be in pretty good shape. The rattle I heard? The battery had come loose and was rolling around inside the bowl. Fortunately, it doesn’t look like it damaged any braces.
The bad news you can see by the pictures. The issues as I see them, none of which happened in transit, are:
1. A LOT of finish dings on the top, a couple penetrating to the wood, and quite a bit of rash.
2. About 3/4 of the rosette is unglued and several pieces of the abalone under it are missing, and the rosette itself is stress-cracked in several places.
3. A small bit of the neck binding on the treble side of the rosette has separated from the neck.
4. Worst of all, the bass-side wing on the peghead was very obviously broken off, and even more obviously inexpertly glued back on. There’s enough ancillary damage visible on the peghead to indicate either a hard fall, or something heavy having fallen on the peghead.
I haven’t bothered to string it, nor will I, so I don’t even know if the electronics work or not. Tomorrow I’ll get an RMA from JB and send it off right away to Mother. I know they’re closing up shop for the holiday break, but I’d still like to get it there ASAP, so they can start working their magic as soon as they come back. My consolation is knowing that, even with extensive spa treatment, I’ll have a better-than-new Custom Legend with a top-grade spruce top that’s had 30 years to open up, and I’ll still wind up paying less than what I’ve been seeing other 1619’s going for.
Sorry for the length of this post, but I just had to vent.
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Posts: 3969
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Looks like he threw a lot of shoes in that closet in the last 8 years and most of them hit the guitar. Too bad g8r. I guess it looked like too good a deal. |
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Posts: 430
Location: Lebanon, TN | Oh dear lord....sympathies!!! |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Tell him he's a f@ckin liar in your feedback. |
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November 2006
Posts: 3969
| Originally posted by Mauvais Beal:
Tell him he's a f@ckin liar in your feedback. I've got a better idea. He lives in Hialeah, where I have a bunch of distant relatives who Castro released from prison and came over during the Mariel boat lift. These are unsavory characters. Maybe i should reestablish "familial" ties and have them "pay him a visit" some night. :mad: |
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Posts: 24
Location: Huntington Beach, California | Sorry brother, hope the good folks at Ovation can put it right. Looking at his ebay photo and terse replies, I'd say he knew exactly what he was selling. "pefect working condition" does not instill much confidence. You are right, in the end you will have a great guitar for a good value. I'm still searching for a natural custom legend. |
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November 2002
Posts: 3603
Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | I've started out with worse. That seller's kneecaps need a little readjustment, though!
Give Tio Gordo the rascal's address.
I'm sure The Wizards will work their usual miracles on it. |
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September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Oooo! I was happy that you finally won your 1619...
Oh well, the folks in CT will fix it up.
The aged top is salvageable?
I expect that you will be much happier when you get it back... ;) |
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Location: Nashville TN. | Call Da boys in New Hartford
That sucks in that condition. |
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Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Furthermore, upon re-reading the other posts...
I have a Beater 1112 that is in "Perfect Working Condition", but I'd be embarrassed to list it as a Project! [so I just keep it]
Maybe I am just a bad salesman, but I've sold three guitars and a project. I spend a paragraph listing what is wrong with them, Cuz I've been burnt before! [see 1112]
Ah... You pays your money and takes your chances.
It'll all work-out in the end!
Karma is a ..... |
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Posts: 5563
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | Wow, g8r...Bummer!
Try as I do to be fair and calm: what Beal said!
It's gonna be ok! The Mothership will prevail! |
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Posts: 840
Location: CA | Maybe you missed the part where he said he pounded fence posts in with it.
From what I've read here on other posts (and this may be wrong), doesn't Mom replace tops like this rather than fix them?
And that fix ain't gonna be cheap. I would be tempted to try to get my money back from numb-nuts . . . in a nice way at first. Just tell him the guitar was grossly represented and you want a refund. See what happens. Was this a guy with actual positive feedback or a newbie? |
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November 2004
Posts: 1374
| from my experiences past and on-going... a top-bowl replacement gets an estimate of between 5-600 dollars, and this is for non-blinged assemblies.. add a neck job/repair or replacement and that's another 300 more or so..maybe more.. plus the mop rosette replacement, and you basically have a new guitar..
you're looking at an estimate that will be more than the value of that guitar for the repairs in my opinion...especially when you figure in your purchase price, and shipping.
ymmv... but I would be returning it as mis-represented, and pursue a refund.
sorry man... that really sux.
Glenn |
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June 2006
Posts: 7307
Location: South of most, North of few | Serge, if you used paypal, I would contact them (you can actually talk to someone there on the phone unlike ebay) and start a claim. I had to do that once, and they ended up freezing the guys paypal and ebay account. They put enough pressure on the guy, that he eventually made things right. (and I didn't even purchase that item through ebay) Thats why I always use paypal credit. If it's not as represented or if you don't get the item, it's like a credit card, you can file a dispute, and usually will prevail. If the item is ok, then you can pay it off next month with no interest. Sorry to hear you got burned, but unless you still think you got a good deal, I would pursue action against him. Just my .02 :mad: |
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Posts: 4903
Location: Phoenix AZ | I missed in your post - did you contact the seller and complain? Tell him you want to return it and get your money back?
Definately you got screwed, because you thought you were getting something different than you got. In the grand scheme of things it's probably worth about what you paid.
You could return it and look for a better one. Or fix this one up. In the end it's gonna cost you about the same.
Dave |
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November 2004
Posts: 1330
Location: ms | Sounds like you already made your mind up to keep the guitar. If you don`t have much in it, fix it , play it, and enjoy. But also leave that guy some bad feed back....... |
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April 2006
Posts: 1138
Location: CT | You didn't say how much you paid, and I can't find the auction. If it was stupid cheap, you can use it as a (very nice sounding) beater. Any more than that and I'd probably return it. If the guy has good feedback he'll want to keep it that way, and there are nice Custom Legends out there for reasonable prices. |
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November 2006
Posts: 3969
| Thanks for all your kind words, sympathies, and suggestions guys. Here\'s the listing for anyone who's curious. I'm waiting to hear from KK (JB is out till Monday) on whether he thinks the top will need to be replaced. If so, I'll bag any repairs, pursue a refund/claim/kneecap rearrangement on the scumbag seller, and find something else ( like this ). With another lowball bid, it might wind up cheaper than repairs. |
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August 2003
Posts: 430
Location: Lebanon, TN | " Q: Hi, it's really hard to see anything in the photo. Do you have more you can send? Is the top checked? How is the action? What condition are the...more Dec-04-07
A: The guitar is in perfect working condition. Fret, Bridge, Neck etc. are perfect." I think this give you all the mileage you need for a good claim from Paypal/Ebay. There is nothing "perfect" about that poor abused 1619. I'd hunt the money refund and move onto another adoptee. Glen is right, I suspect the restoration would be far and beyond reasonable value unless you already had emotional ties to the guitar like inheriting it from a relative etc. |
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Location: south east Michigan | I would try for a refund even if it ended up costing some shipping money. |
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June 2006
Posts: 7307
Location: South of most, North of few | Originally posted by Slipkid:
I would try for a refund even if it ended up costing some shipping money. ...and then have his knee caps broken. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | both of them |
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Posts: 1330
Location: ms | The bad part about this is if the prick would have been honest he still could have got a fair price from somebody on this guitar. It looks like with just a bit of glue it will be a player, not a looker but a worker. |
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July 2002
Posts: 1900
| This seller was completely dishonest from the start. Report him to ebay, return the guitar, cancel the payments...it's obvious from his 'one photo' and the Q and A's he was deliberately deceiving all the bidders. |
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1619 Arrived Today - Caveat Emptor!
