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Joined:
December 2009
Posts: 39
Location: Israel | After more than a year of deliberation, and posting on this forum for advice, I went ahead and ordered this model. I live in Israel, so I had to wait 5 months for it to arrive, and I also didn't have an opportunity to hear it or play it before placing the order - the dealer here only stocks a few Ovation items. The reason I felt pretty sure about this type of "blind" order was the fact that I have been playing on a 1613 for around 15 years, and I love it - it's suited my needs quite well, and I haven't heard another guitar that makes me take a second look.
I've had the 2073 for 2 months, been playing every day, the tone has started to break in. So here are my thoughts and problems :
At first, I was a bit disappointed with the sound as opposed to the 1613 - the 1613 is really loud in comparison, loud in a good way : like the difference between a viola and a violin. With the 2073, I feel as if I'm playing with plugs in my ears. But this could be because of the age of the 1613 - it's had time to open up, and so might the new guitar.
On the other hand, the 2073 is more musical - each note is more clearer and sonorous. The balance and clarity is great all along the neck. I think each note also has a bit more sustain. I'm talking here about playing unplugged. And it's easier to play with contrast between loud and soft tones.
As for comfort - I was hoping the 1 7/8 neck width on the 2073 would be a significant improvement for me, but it turns out that there's a downside as well : the neck is thicker than the neck of the 1613. So the plus and minus sort of cancel each other out - but still, very comfortable.
And now for the questions : I need to know all I can about setting up the guitar, because the instrument arrived with buzzing, and I just don't trust the dealer with taking care of this. After he mentioned to me that "every guitar has a bit of buzz", I knew I was in trouble. He also made a small adjustment of the truss rod right away, another thing that I'm not sure was necessary - and anyway, hasn't solved the problem.
So - does the 2073 also have shims under the bridge? Are there known issues with this model? I'll be changing the lower two strings this week as well, as this might be part of the problem. I've also taken a look at the buzz diagnosis page at http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Setup/BuzzDiagnos...
If I do decide to make a minor adjustment to the truss rod, I will be making a lot less than the 1/8 turn that everyone seems to talk about.
My main problem with this dealer, other than the fact that I afraid he doesn't know how to set up an Ovation, is that I live 5 hours away from the store, and I just can't go back and forth with the guitar. And no friendly-neighborhood luthier in my area.
So any advice from you people would be great. |
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Joined:
April 2008
Posts: 2985
Location: Sydney, Australia | Joe, sit tight and someone more knowledgeable than me will be along soon. There are 4 possible causes: Nut, frets, neck and saddle.
1. Put a capo on the first fret. Is the buzz still there? If yes, the nut is not the problem.
2. Move the capo down the neck, fret by fret. If the buzz goes away suddenly, you may have a loose fret.
3. Capo back on the first fret, hold down a string at the base of the neck (14th fret) - this should help you see any curvature in the neck.
4. (always check the obvious) - is the guitar in concert pitch?
If the truss rod is out of adjustment enough you can see it by putting your eye just above the strings on the head and looking straight down the neck. I'm guessing a truss rod adjustment is the trick - but don't play with it if it looks straight.
Most Ovations come with shims under the saddle - taking them out will make the problem worse though. |
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Joined:
December 2009
Posts: 39
Location: Israel | Thanks TAFKAR - still haven't been able to locate the problem.
Here, for example, is what I don't understand : I can play the open G string, and I don't get the buzz. But if I press down on the low E string on any fret between the 5th and the 8th frets (A, B flat, B, or C notes) - then the open G will buzz when I pluck it. So will the open B sometimes. "Rattle" is more exact - but I can't really place the source of the rattle, seems like the lower part of the guitar.
I've replaced the low E string, but no difference at all.
Sometimes it seems that the buzzing only starts to appear about 5 minutes into my playing.
The neck is perfectly straight as far as I can tell. |
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Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | "Rattle" is more exact - but I can't really place the source of the rattle, seems like the lower part of the guitar.
Are the wires rattling inside the guitar? |
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Joined:
April 2008
Posts: 2985
Location: Sydney, Australia | Good point OMA. I had a loose wire inside my Adamas which would resonate with certain notes. They wrap the wires together with a 3M type cable tie which sticks to the side of the bowl. It had unstuck and would vibrate at certain frequencies. A little dab of glue fixed that problem. |
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December 2006
Posts: 6992
Location: Jet City | Are you using straplocks? The little release buttons sometimes buzz on mine |
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Joined:
December 2009
Posts: 39
Location: Israel | I didn't want to take off all the strings to access the underside of the bridge, but I've taken out the shell of the preamp and tried to see if something's amiss. Nothing I can feel or see.
Maybe "rattle" is not exactly right, either - it's not the sound of a loose part, but a pronounced buzz that seems to run the length of the string. Hard to place the source.
And it's not a strap lock or loose strap pin.
I might just decide to release the truss rod a bit, but I like the action as it is, and I really don't want to make an adjustment like this before I rule out other possibilities - something that the dealer here, unfortunately, didn't do. |
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Joined:
December 2009
Posts: 39
Location: Israel | Hello all,
I'm returning to this thread from two months ago, as my attempts to solve this buzzing problem on my new 2073LX have led me to the following conclusion : the buzzing occurs when my finger is placed (on the neck) in the middle of the space between two frets, or below that, as opposed to adjacent or touching the higher fret. I realize that the latter is perhaps how one is supposed to ideally play, but personally, I have never encountered a buzz like this, on any guitar, when a finger is placed in the middle of the space between two frets. The string buzzes even if it is softly picked.
This occurs mostly on the two lower strings, at the lower or mid range frets on the neck, and changing the strings hasn't helped. The only thing that solves the problem is raising the action absurdly high - really, an unreasonable height.
Any thoughts? |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15654
Location: SoCal | Try adjusting the neck for a little more relief. Also, you might have a couple of frets that have come up on the bass side of the fingerboard..... |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12750
Location: Boise, Idaho | Get a straight edge. 2 feet is best. Lay it on the frets and see if it rocks on a fret.
Another way to tell is if it stops buzzing when you fret up the neck to a certain point, or if it plays the same note at two different frets. Either could indicate a high fret, which can be tapped down, but probably should be looked at by a pro.
One of those guitar repair sites has articles on this, but I can't remember the name of it. |
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Joined:
December 2009
Posts: 39
Location: Israel | The guitar's been given to a "pro" (the dealer's repair shop), and nothing unusual has been seen. I'll re-check the bass frets myself, but I haven't noticed anything either. And the buzzing doesn't happen at a certain fret, but at many, and only when the finger is placed as I described.
Adjusting for more relief of the neck is not an option in my opinion, because it already is relatively high.
To me (and unfortunately, the dealer) it seems that this is just how this guitar is, but I won't be able to keep it if this is the case.
Would contacting Ovation customer service be of any help, more than the advice I've been getting here? Do I have a case for returning the instrument to the dealer? They'd have to ship it back to the States, something I'm pretty sure they're not willing to do. |
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Joined:
May 2006
Posts: 4221
Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent | I'm pretty stumped, so I'll grasp at a straw or two. I've owned several Ovation nylons and never encountered this issue. But if I may ask:
Do you play with fingers or a pick? How aggressive is your attack? Fretting on center line between the frets does allow a little more flex as the string vibrates, so perhaps adjusting the pressure applied by your plucking hand might help with the buzz. You would have to experiment a little to see if a harder or softer attack makes a difference.
Another ideas is to put a capo in a place that normally causes buzzing, and then see if the buzz persists.
Finally, it can't hurt to try strings with a different tension. Whether you are using standard or high-tension strings now, switch them out and see if it helps.
I admit, I will be extremely curious to see if you find out the cause. I've never heard of this before. |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15654
Location: SoCal | I'd definitely contact customer support. They may refer you to a repair guy there in Israel, but it might be worthwhile. No guitar should buzz like that.
Did you try to dial in a little relief in the neck? |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12750
Location: Boise, Idaho | Joe, I'm not sure you are understanding what Moody is saying. You're talking about high action, which is different from adjusting the relief. If the neck is bowed significantly, so that the middle of the neck is lower than either end, it could buzz whenever you fret in the middle of the fretboard. |
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Joined:
December 2009
Posts: 39
Location: Israel | Thanks very much for all the feedback!
However, the problem remains unsolved.
The buzzing occurs the whole length of the two lower strings (up til the 14th fret on both), and for the first three frets of the D string. If the finger pressing the string so much as touches the higher fret of the two adjacent, the buzz disappears. If the finger is placed in the middle between two frets, the body buzzes.
I can pluck the string with a fingernail or the flesh of the finger, it doesn't matter. And even a gentle pluck causes the buzz. The string is pressed strongly.
There seems to be no problem with the curvature of the neck. I have a clearance of about 4 mm. between the 12th fret and the top of the low E string, about 3 above the 5th, and about 1 point something above the first fret.
Placing a capo doesn't make any difference.
I changed the lower E to a medium-high tension Hannebach - no significant change. This is already the third string change.
It seems I'll just have to confront the dealer with the options of clearing this up with Ovation, or giving him back the guitar. Maybe he won't mind that I do the correspondence. |
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Joined:
December 2009
Posts: 39
Location: Israel | I'd like to request from anyone here who owns this model, to check this out for me : play any note on the lower two strings, so that the finger pressing on the string is placed between the two frets (not touching the higher one), and tell me if there is a buzzing sound.
I'd be happy to hear the result. If indeed there is no buzzing, could the same person measure the clearance between the frets and the strings somewhere on the neck? What type of strings are in use?
Thanks! |
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Joined:
March 2010
Posts: 486
Location: Suisun City, Ca | Have you checked string-to-fret clearance on the B and e strings. Is it constant with the E and A? Not sure how to check, (maybe a pair of carpenter squares?) but could the neck be tortionally wowwed? Looking down the neck, from the body, can you detect a twist to the right?
As you run a capo up the board, it would "twist" along with the neck, regardless of a potential twist. |
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Joined:
December 2009
Posts: 39
Location: Israel | Hi AstroDan - thanks for the input. The neck looks perfect, from anywhere I look, unless there is something that only a luthier would be able to notice. No one like that near me. The clearance of the strings looks the same, or even higher, than my old 1613 that's never buzzed in its life.
I'm now waiting for the dealer to answer my mail with a suggestion, I hope to persuade him to start contacting Ovation USA.
Hope this will get fixed up somehow, I'd really like to keep the guitar, but not in this state of affairs. Real disappointment for me, this being the first guitar I've bought in my life (always received instruments that others parted with for free), and quite a bit of money for me. |
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new 2073LX nylon string : impressions and questions
