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| I know this isn't an Ovation question but I just picked up a Baby Taylor (BT1) that needs the back re-glued to the sides. It's separated from the sides along the glue joint about 1/3 of the way around w/no cracking or other damage. It looks like it might have been dropped and the back sprung loose. There's no kerfing or other reinforcement along the separated area.
I was wondering what kind of glue I should use. I was thinking of using CA after gently dragging some sandpaper through the crack to clean the joint of old glue.
I was also wondering if I should re-glue it all at once or work my way around, 3"- 4" at a time. This would be relatively easy to do with CA.
Suggestions? |
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Location: Lake Forest, CA | Pics would help. |
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Posts: 267
| Here's a pic of a typical section. If you think of the centerline of the big end of the guitar as 6 o'clock, the separation is continuous from about 6:30 to about 10:30, ending at the top end of the concave curve. As you can see from the photo, most of the separation appears to be a glue failure with a few dark spots where a small layer of bottom wood stayed adhered to the side. Fortunately, it's not misaligned too much and pushes back in alignment pretty easily.
I called Taylor and they suggested that I use a wood glue instead of CA since the CA might damage the finish, which is a matte varnish. There was about 4" of separation between the top and the side which I glued with Titebond II last night. It looks good this morning.
Here's a photo of the separation at the bottom end. This section has the biggest gap.
Edited by BCam 2016-02-11 10:11 AM
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | See? That is why an Ovation bowl is a far better design. 
That said, I would agree with the Taylor folks and use wood glue.
Now, which kind of wood glue may be a good question.
I would just use the Elmer's that I have stored under my sink...
But more experienced BFLG folks my have other preferences.
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Location: Texas | I would guess hide glue...but would look for confirmation. |
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Location: undisclosed | I've probably got a different approach to hide glue than Dan. Hot hide glue I use in traditional violin repair as the liquid variety doesn't have the strength needed for necks etc... It has to be handled carefully, kept at the right temp and used with sterile equipment as it is an organic substance.
I'd suggest gluing it all at once after cleaning the joint with a high strength wood glue along the lines of Tight Bond. The longer set time will allow positioning, clamping and cleanup. Well prepped with a tight fit such a "yellow" glue can be stronger than epoxy but isn't as gap filling. |
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Location: Lake Forest, CA | Yeah, when Taylor said 'wood glue' they probably meant something like Titebond (aliphatic resin) or some kind of hide glue as both are used in guitar construction and repairs like this one.
In either case, you'll want to clean away the old glue, then apply new glue and clamp the joint using tape or luthier's rubber bands. |
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Posts: 267
| I re-glued it with Titebond II yesterday, I hope I was able to clean up the old glue sufficiently. It looks pretty good but I haven't restrung it yet so time will tell. I hope this "Craigslist special" lives up to the online reviews, update to follow.
I'm really enjoying fixing up damaged guitars and ukuleles. So far I've brought an Ovation Matrix back to life (ugly but sounds good and plays well), fixed a broken neck on an otherwise like-new Yamaha, fixed up a baritone uke for a friend and now this. It amazes me how many people don't even change their own strings. On the other hand, I'm more amazed at the skill and confidence it must take for a professional luthier to work on a really valuable guitar. Thanks for all your comments.
I do have some hide glue but decided to not use it this time since my initial efforts in using it to re-attach a ukulele bridge didn't go that well. I don't think my temperature control was what it should have been. I need to practice with some scrap wood. |
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Location: Lake Forest, CA | Sounds good.
After working with Old Brown Glue, I don't see any reason to go back to crystallized hide glue. I like the OBG because it's HG, but with a lot longer working time. It's also a lot less sensitive to temperatures. In fact, the first time I used it I forgot to heat it up. But the glue joint stayed together just fine. |
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Location: undisclosed | Where I found hide glue products such as Old Brown Glue less strong are in high humidity situations, something we get up here in the soggy PNW. High load things like violin necks had a tendency to pull out with this formulation but don't with crystallized hot hide glue. In dry weather it wasn't a problem. Like everything, user results may vary. |
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| Sounds like I need to get some Old Brown Glue. I restrung the Baby Taylor and all seems fine. I re-used the old strings but they need to be replaced. My repair doesn't look as perfect as the undamaged joint but it's holding. |
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Location: Lake Forest, CA | Cavalier - 2016-02-12 10:09 AM
Where I found hide glue products such as Old Brown Glue less strong are in high humidity situations, something we get up here in the soggy PNW. High load things like violin necks had a tendency to pull out with this formulation but don't with crystallized hot hide glue. In dry weather it wasn't a problem. Like everything, user results may vary.
This is good to know. Thanks!
I'm sure the problem has to do with the urea added to OBG to keep it liquid at room temps. The wood sucks the moisture out of the glue which allows it to harden. (in dry conditions, like SoCal) But, I can see how humid conditions could prevent this from happening. |
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Location: undisclosed | The conditions where it let go were during evening outdoor gigs /receptions, even if covered there is a lot more moisture in the air. Typically after enough exposure the fail would come within a day or two. A campfire jam would probably have been more immediate, say by midnight. It did take a couple of failures to figure out but I haven't had any violins lose their necks since I switched.
Edited by Cavalier 2016-02-12 4:18 PM
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Location: Lake Forest, CA | Thanks for the info.
What gram strength HHG do you use? |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | What a bunch of geeks we are. Guitar geeks, OK. String geeks, a little weirder. Glue geeks are over the top. |
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Location: undisclosed | For necks I use 480.
Come on Mark, you should expect glue geeks to stick together.
My background is similar to Dan's in that I built balsa and tissue flying models as a youngster but my budget never got past rubber bands and free flight though I did work up to my own designs. This was compounded by learning boatbuilding as a youngster but I didn't start on instruments till high school. I've made some good friends in violin shops over the years which helped my learning curve. They are a interesting blend of the traditional and new, epoxy is a dark art spoken of in hushed tones when a dire catastrophe has rendered old ways inoperable. |
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Location: Lake Forest, CA | Mark in Boise - 2016-02-13 11:04 AM
What a bunch of geeks we are. Guitar geeks, OK. String geeks, a little weirder. Glue geeks are over the top.
Where in that list would you place top-thicknessing geeks? LOL! |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Torrefied, top-thicknessing geeks, to be exact!
Gets your juices flowing, don't it?! |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Yeah, we also have nut-width geeks, neck shape and finish geeks, pick geeks and about every other type of guitar geek. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Double post again.
Edited by Mark in Boise 2016-02-14 10:38 PM
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Location: Yokohama, Japan | Sounds like it's time to re-name the BFL-"G"? |
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Location: undisclosed | Pretty funny...... and with us all being geeks if anyone brings up the "g spot" we'll know they are talking about spilled glue. |
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Baby Taylor Back Repair -- Glue?
