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#60 Josh White

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DanSavage
Posted 2017-01-23 8:36 PM (#532241 - in reply to #532233)
Subject: Re: #60 Josh White



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Beal - 2017-01-23 4:01 PM

Now this #60.


Watched the video.

So, is this guitar (#60) the same one JW is seen playing in the video? IOW, how many were 'issued' to him?
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jay
Posted 2017-01-23 9:26 PM (#532242 - in reply to #532241)
Subject: Re: #60 Josh White



Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 1249

Location: Texas

Bill,

JW died in 69. Had production stopped prior to his death or did it stop afterwards. Either way...what was the reason for the end of the line. 

Totally appreciate you taking the time for the history lesson. 

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Standingovation
Posted 2017-01-23 9:31 PM (#532243 - in reply to #531939)
Subject: Re: #60 Josh White



Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6191

Location: Phoenix AZ
#247 has a radius fretboard
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360Ovation
Posted 2017-01-23 11:21 PM (#532245 - in reply to #532102)
Subject: Re: #60 Josh White


Joined:
July 2015
Posts: 190

Location: SW Mintsoda
BCam - 2017-01-18 12:51 PM

Here's a link to a History Detectives episode on Josh White and a custom Guild guitar which the owner thinks is a pre-cursor to a Guild Josh White signature model. In addition to tracking down the history of the custom Guild guitar, the episode addresses Ovation's beating Guild to the punch in launching a Josh White signature model guitar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2dXwZ5beQ0


That was a great video clip - thanks.

Although it's not accurate to say Ovation beat Guild to the punch on the Josh White Signature model; Guild had decided that music was moving on by '65/'66 (to groups like the Beatles and more electric stuff) and therefore decided not to pursue the JW model. Ovation made a different decision.
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Beal
Posted 2017-01-24 5:16 PM (#532264 - in reply to #531939)
Subject: Re: #60 Josh White



Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127

Location: 6 String Ranch
don't know how many were given to Josh. 2-3? He didn't ask for much.
60 was not one of them I don't think, although it did come to me from NY/NJ area. (of course if I ever sell it I'll claim it was he's favorite one! LOL)
Production stopped after he died. Didn't want to continue making money off someone who had passed. (although the company probably didn't make any money till after campbell had it on tv every week) There was some demand still and eventually the Folklore came along.
I'd say Guild was first. then they passed and Ovation stepped up.
this is #60 and I'd GUESS that maybe there were 15-20 made before that. There were only 4 models and he was an endorser so that should carry a little weight. a couple classics and the rest std and dlx b'dr.
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Love O Fair
Posted 2017-01-24 8:17 PM (#532267 - in reply to #531939)
Subject: Re: #60 Josh White



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1768

Location: When??
Terrific story, Bill. Thanks for telling it. I'm sure you have plenty, and we'd love to hear 'em all!
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photodork
Posted 2017-01-25 12:24 PM (#532273 - in reply to #531939)
Subject: Re: #60 Josh White



Joined:
March 2014
Posts: 51

Location: Halifax, nova scotia
Fantastic to hear the early stories. Thanks bill! I love my josh white and im pleased to be its owner.
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Bluebird
Posted 2017-01-25 1:06 PM (#532274 - in reply to #531939)
Subject: Re: #60 Josh White



Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 1445

Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Great stuff, Beal. You should write your own book.

What about the sound of #60? With the deep shiny bowl, 12 fret neck and lacquer finish, it has to be one of the biggest sounding O's ever made.
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Beal
Posted 2017-01-25 3:30 PM (#532277 - in reply to #531939)
Subject: Re: #60 Josh White



Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127

Location: 6 String Ranch
It still has the dead silk and steel strings. I haven't changed them yet. I need to plug the bridge and then get it restrung. But it is very responsive, even with the dead strings.
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Beal
Posted 2017-01-28 2:46 PM (#532335 - in reply to #531939)
Subject: Re: #60 Josh White



Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127

Location: 6 String Ranch
I don't need a book, Walter did a good job with that one. Maybe some new chapters if we can get them to republish it again.

But now.....The March Acoustic Guitar has a nice article on Josh White. Check it our. Buffy Saint Marie is on the cover. Funny thing, we were going to make a model for her, also at the beginning when we were doing Josh's. It was a smaller bowl, kinda like an OM. As far as I know there was only 1 made. It used to be hanging in the engineering room. It was a mid depth model.
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Cavalier
Posted 2017-01-28 2:56 PM (#532337 - in reply to #531939)
Subject: Re: #60 Josh White


Joined:
March 2013
Posts: 359

Location: undisclosed
My Dad was into Josh White, he had a bunch of old 78s. He couldn't stand rock, jazz stopped at Dixieland, blues ended with Leadbelly etc... He spent a fair amount of time yelling to turn down records, electric guitars, violins etc... One of my favorite moments was when he heard an acoustic 12 string version of "I Hear My Train A'comin" coming out of the stereo. He came in and said, "Now see! That is music! Who is it?" "Uh, Dad that is Jimi Hendrix."

He slammed the door on the way out but let up a bit after that.

One of the downsides of music becoming industry is that it is propelled by fad. Generations can lose their voice. It is sad to think of a world that hasn't heard of Josh White as he is relevant now.

Edited by Cavalier 2017-01-28 3:07 PM
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Beal
Posted 2017-02-08 8:24 AM (#532640 - in reply to #531939)
Subject: Re: #60 Josh White



Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127

Location: 6 String Ranch
I have come across an early picture of Charlie and Josh. I sent it to StandingOvation. Maybe he can post it here since he is much more technical advanced on all this computer spoo. It shows the guitar as having that rosette that Dave referred to. Not one I ever remember being used but the one in an early published foot. It also appears to be a flat fingerboard.

I guess it is a sign of being established, or just around for a long time, I was thinking who to ask about the details back then. There aren't any of them left.

Edited by Beal 2017-02-08 8:26 AM
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Standingovation
Posted 2017-02-09 8:07 PM (#532680 - in reply to #531939)
Subject: RE: #60 Josh White



Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6191

Location: Phoenix AZ
Here's the photo ... Yes that is the one I was referring to. I'm pretty sure he played it at the product launch. I had heard the story about the nut (check out the photo). It's a strange ham fist job. A shorter scale fretboard glued onto a longer scale neck and they had to make a "filler" north of the nut. Odd but true. This would be a very historical guitar if it still exists.

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marenostrum
Posted 2017-02-10 5:59 AM (#532694 - in reply to #531939)
Subject: Re: #60 Josh White



Joined:
August 2007
Posts: 1008

Location: Tuscany, Italy
Very nice. Thanks for posting. Looks like a "zero fret" arrangement.
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jay
Posted 2017-02-10 11:47 AM (#532698 - in reply to #531939)
Subject: Re: #60 Josh White



Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 1249

Location: Texas
What an awesome picture! Yeah...something happened with that neck? Effectively they did zero fret it, with a nut, but that just adds to the mystic of being a fledgling guitar company. this JW would stand out if it ever showed up again. Thanks Bill for sharing this.
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Beal
Posted 2017-02-10 11:51 AM (#532699 - in reply to #531939)
Subject: Re: #60 Josh White



Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127

Location: 6 String Ranch
that is definitely a flat fingerboard
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Beal
Posted 2017-02-10 11:53 AM (#532700 - in reply to #531939)
Subject: Re: #60 Josh White



Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127

Location: 6 String Ranch
the european Josh White model was the Zenith brand. I remember that now, I had one. it was terrible and I sold it
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Love O Fair
Posted 2017-02-10 12:26 PM (#532701 - in reply to #531939)
Subject: Re: #60 Josh White



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1768

Location: When??
@Beal ->>He came up from New York to visit and get the guitar. When the nut slot was cut somehow they got it wrong and the intonation was off. He claimed he couldn't play it in tune....<--

So was the guitar he came to the house for the same one as in the photo? If it was, I sure hope he kept it anyway, and that it didn't go into the "mongrel" pile and eventually get used as a rock bat at the county dump.
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bobfrith
Posted 2017-02-10 1:44 PM (#532702 - in reply to #531939)
Subject: RE: #60 Josh White


Joined:
September 2002
Posts: 153

This is a photo of # 291 which was made especially for Josh, which I photographed in 1999.

The truss rod cover is different than the one pictured with Charlie, and it appears that the zero fret is a bit shorter.

The top was refinished and the bridge and rosette were replaced by the factory, probably in 1969. However, the wear from Josh's fingernails can been seen underneath the finish. The bowl was also textured at that time.

The interesting thing is that both guitars have snowflake inlays at the 12th fret instead of diamonds.

When I photographed the guitar there was a hole in the back of the bowl, but it was subsequently refurbished and the hole was covered.



Edited by bobfrith 2017-02-10 2:00 PM




(JOSH WHITE - 2.jpg)



(JOSH WHITE - 4.jpg)



(JOSH WHITE - 1.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments JOSH WHITE - 2.jpg (30KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments JOSH WHITE - 4.jpg (25KB - 1 downloads)
Attachments JOSH WHITE - 1.jpg (27KB - 0 downloads)
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Beal
Posted 2017-02-10 6:25 PM (#532705 - in reply to #531939)
Subject: Re: #60 Josh White



Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127

Location: 6 String Ranch
well this keeps getting more and more interesting
They had no idea that replacing things as they were was better than replacing with what was currently being used. They thought that was better. Not wrong, but not right,
Was that a flat fingerboard?
Josh used to come up to the factory once a month and have his fingernails remade. He had psoriasis and his fingernails stopped growing. So we made some for him out of bowl material. A little bit of cloth and a real slow mix of laminac cause it generated heat when it cured. Then sand them down and polish, gargle some scotch and play for the people and drive back to NY. See you next month. The good old days.
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standing
Posted 2017-02-11 1:01 AM (#532711 - in reply to #531939)
Subject: Re: #60 Josh White



Joined:
December 2008
Posts: 1453

Location: Texas
Presumably, the faux nails were only on his right hand?
Did they look remotely natural?

(Now I want carbon-fiber fingernails.)
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Beal
Posted 2017-02-11 8:33 AM (#532713 - in reply to #531939)
Subject: Re: #60 Josh White



Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127

Location: 6 String Ranch
right hand only and it was clear resign. a little thick though so it did look a little funny. I don't know what happened to the guitar at the house that day. But it sure isn't #291
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bobfrith
Posted 2017-02-11 10:32 AM (#532715 - in reply to #532713)
Subject: Re: #60 Josh White


Joined:
September 2002
Posts: 153

In 1999 a guy named Nick Chinetti from Charlotte, NC listed this guitar (#291) on eBay with a reserve of $1,000. I was in the area and visited Nick for several hours and took photos of the guitar. Nick said that he and his family were friends of Josh, and when Josh died his family acquired the guitar and it was in his sister's closet for 30 years.

The guitar had an unoriginal bridge, refinished top, raised rosette and a textured back. It was obvious that the textured back was not original, as there was texture residue on the heel of the neck. When I informed Nick that the guitar had modifications he pulled the auction.

At that time the guitar was missing the inlay from the third fret, missing several screws from the tuners, and had a large dent in the back with a hole.

The guitar resurfaced a few years ago, offered for sale by a guitar dealer at a price of about $6,000. It had been completely restored.

The digital pictures give a better resolution of the label and zero fret.

Edited by bobfrith 2017-02-11 10:39 AM




(OVATION JOSH WHITE # 291 - 1.jpg)



(OVATION JOSH WHITE # 291 - 2.jpg)



(OVATION JOSH WHITE # 291 - 4.jpg)



(OVATION JOSH WHITE # 291.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments OVATION JOSH WHITE # 291 - 1.jpg (30KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments OVATION JOSH WHITE # 291 - 2.jpg (41KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments OVATION JOSH WHITE # 291 - 4.jpg (30KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments OVATION JOSH WHITE # 291.jpg (26KB - 0 downloads)
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-02-11 10:35 AM (#532716 - in reply to #531939)
Subject: Re: #60 Josh White



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA
I keep the fingernails on my right hand longer for finger picking. When I break a nail, I use ASP fiberglass (woven cloth) fingernail wraps and C/A to replace the broken nail, or to reinforce a hang nail.

I've also used silk nail wraps with C/A and of the two, the silk is more durable.

It usually takes about 6-7 layers of cloth to build it up so it's thick enough to withstand the steel strings.

As you say, Bill, it does look a little funny because of how thick they are. But, who cares how they look. I don't do it for looks.
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-02-11 10:44 AM (#532717 - in reply to #531939)
Subject: RE: #60 Josh White



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA

I don't think what we're seeing in the photos can really be called a zero fret as the arrangement of the extra piece of wood and the nut are backwards.

Here's what a standard zero fret arrangement looks like. Of course, it's possible I'm not understanding how the zero fret on #291 is set up.



Edited by DanSavage 2017-02-11 10:47 AM
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