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Whats with Ebay Japan ovations?

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murph
Posted 2018-08-07 7:05 PM (#544813)
Subject: Whats with Ebay Japan ovations?


Joined:
September 2007
Posts: 108

I suspect this has been discussed, but while I'm here...why all the Ovations on E-Bay from Japan. are they real or possibly fakes?


Edited by murph 2018-08-07 7:08 PM
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Standingovation
Posted 2018-08-07 7:38 PM (#544814 - in reply to #544813)
Subject: Re: Whats with Ebay Japan ovations?



Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 5784

Location: Phoenix AZ
Japan has historically had a very active and dedicated distributor of Ovation and Adamas guitars including many limited runs of special models available only to Japan. Basically it's what the US would have been, had it not been for Ebay cratering the market for new guitars. Now it seems that some sellers in Japan have worked out the economics of shipping and have found a fertile resale market here in the US.
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2wheeldrummer
Posted 2018-08-07 7:44 PM (#544815 - in reply to #544813)
Subject: Re: Whats with Ebay Japan ovations?



Joined:
February 2014
Posts: 418

Location: moline,illinois
The Japanese do love there ovations but if you look closely at the ads many guitars are listed multiple times by different sellers,also the price for a lot of the models is much greater than most would say their worth,on the other hand if there is a specific rare model your looking for it might be easier to find one on the japanese market ,I bought an adamas 1588 12 string off a japanese retailer,paid a pretty penny for it but it's a rare guitar.


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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-08-07 10:57 PM (#544820 - in reply to #544813)
Subject: Re: Whats with Ebay Japan ovations?



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 952

Location: What week?
I imagine Ken (OFC arumako) will be chiming in on this topic soon enough since he well knows the workings of the Japanese Ovation market, but in the meantime here's a link to his recent rebuild there in Yokohama. Such a nice guitar!
http://www.ovationfanclub.com/megabbs/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=48...





Edited by Love O Fair 2018-08-07 11:03 PM
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alpep
Posted 2018-08-08 2:51 PM (#544829 - in reply to #544813)
Subject: Re: Whats with Ebay Japan ovations?


Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10270

Location: NJ
Strange
Many Japanese guitar sellers buying guitars in the USA shipping them to japan then selling back to Americans

A business model I don’t understand
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arumako
Posted 2018-08-08 8:06 PM (#544839 - in reply to #544813)
Subject: Re: Whats with Ebay Japan ovations?



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 804

Location: Yokohama, Japan
Hi murph! Standingovation and 2wheeldrummer pretty much sums up the Japanese used O markets accurately; but with e-Bay, Mr. Pepiak's "strange" comment should be taken seriously. There are a lot of unusual Os that are sold here in Japan (like my 5986 that "Love O Fair" referred to - thanks Al! by the now dissolved Nakao, and some really cool vintage stuff in great condition that you won't find in the States. Most of these are way over-priced, but some folks don't find that a hindrance.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of independent guys that find these Os on auction sites and they'll put them up for sale on the Bay without taking ownership of the guitar. Yup, an illegal unauthorized consignment kinda deal; and some folks have had everything from cancelled orders (by the seller) to a different guitar being shipped, etc... So, you need to be really careful. A lot of these sellers will sell to USA only, but will not sell to Japanese bidders like me in Japan. If that's the case, BEWARE!

There are reputable stores that export used Os in Japan, like Ishibashi Music; and a few others, they're on the pricey side of reasonable (actually probably closer to "reasonable" as import taxes and logistic fees increase prices here, and Japan has not suffered from the cratered market syndrome that Standingovation talked about), but most of these outlets have English speaking (enough to get by) service reps.

If you're really interested, standard web-buying principles apply here; practice caution, communicate a lot (if that's not possible don't buy it), ask for pictures over and over if you have too, and if your still not sure send me a PM and I'll be glad to check-out the authenticity for ya. Hope this helps!
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nerdydave
Posted 2018-08-09 11:28 PM (#544850 - in reply to #544813)
Subject: Re: Whats with Ebay Japan ovations?


Joined:
August 2011
Posts: 671

Location: Always beautiful canyon country of Utah
So I am confused as to Ebay "cratering" the US market. Is it bad that they acted as a conduit to recycle used Ovations? It seems that they did make Ovations and Adami affordable for many folks who may not have been able to afford factory prices for new guitars? Just wondering as I have never quite seen this issue in this particular light before.
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2018-08-10 3:07 AM (#544852 - in reply to #544813)
Subject: Re: Whats with Ebay Japan ovations?



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10275

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR

No Dave... eBay allowed me to buy Ovations and other guitars that I could not have afforded otherwise.
Also, eBay allowed people to buy nice Ovations that they would not have seen in their local Mom & Pop store. Even if they did have a local Guitar Center, that would only have Celebrity guitars anyway.

BUT! eBay did kill it for new "over-priced" guitars.

I bought my first Ovations on eBay... But I did move-up.
Eventually I bought my Sweet-T, a few Ultra guitars (2171, 2178), a new 2058T.
I even cracked-down and bought a NOS Adamas from Al.

What "killed" the market was profiteering by Fender, and now DW.

Back-in-the-Day, my New Sweet-T cost $599 in 2008. My New 12-string 2058T cost $650 the same year.
My New (FRG) 40th Anny K1111 cost $549. I bought the Ultra Guitars NEW when Fender was getting rid of them so that they could re-brand the Ultras as the "new" AX models.

Now... the current owners of Ovation want you to pay a USA-prices for stuff that is made in the old Ultra factory.

Or you can go on eBay and buy a REAL Made-in-the-USA Ovation for less than a re-banded Celebrity Deluxe.
That is not eBay "cratering" the Market. It is corporations treating Guitars as a commodity like toilet paper and flooding the market.

It used to be that you just went to a Pawn Shop to get your guitar.
eBay is just that Pawn Shop.

BTW-- I get chills every time I enjoy this video.


Edited by Old Man Arthur 2018-08-10 3:20 AM
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jay
Posted 2018-08-10 9:08 AM (#544857 - in reply to #544852)
Subject: Re: Whats with Ebay Japan ovations?



Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 1199

Location: Texas

OMA ...

What "killed" the market was profiteering by Fender, and now DW

Companies have to make a profit, right? And it appears that Fender and DW didn't make enough, or any. You don't close shop when you are killing it profiteering.

 If you want to rag on a profiteering group...those eBay folks would be the place to start. They have wiped out a lot of sellers by taking most of their profit margin in fees.

 



Edited by jay 2018-08-10 9:12 AM
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Standingovation
Posted 2018-08-10 9:42 AM (#544858 - in reply to #544813)
Subject: Re: Whats with Ebay Japan ovations?



Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 5784

Location: Phoenix AZ
I think eBay as it originally existed as an auction site for used items was fantastic and I did acquire some nice vintage instruments. But eBay has become a huge portal for online retailer of new gear which competes directly with B&M stores (which as a result have largely disappeared). You can't hardly find a local B&M anymore, and if you did they would probably not be profitable enough to stock a desired supply of instruments. And even if they did, most buyers would try out a guitar and then go buy it online. So the result is no USA ovations on local shops where anyone can even try one, and coupled with an non-existent artist relations/endorsee network and virtually no marketing/advertising ... well there you have it. I am afraid that all of these factors (and more) have driven the guitars we love almost into extinction.

OMA once coined the phrase "EvilBay" and with regard to new instruments, I would agree 100%.
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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-08-10 10:25 AM (#544860 - in reply to #544813)
Subject: Re: Whats with Ebay Japan ovations?



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 952

Location: What week?
+1 to Standingovation

Today it typically costs less to purchase something online than at a retail B&M (duh). The difference in overhead cost is obvious, and those savings are passed along in price. HOWEVER-- I predict that once the online market has finally burned all the B&Ms to the ground and death, the online costs will increase at an incremental pace that is only slightly noticeable over time, though will eventually reach the same price as it would have been at a B&M (probably higher), and the profits will be huge. Thing is, Amazon (et al) is a long range plan, and by the time that price increase cycle makes its way to full fruition the vast majority of consumers will be of the age where they have never even heard the names of their grandpa's old B&M favorites, much less to have ever stepped foot into one. Nor will they be aware of today's evolution changes between the two because as I type this they are sitting in a high chair with a sippy cup. The inflated price will be the price, and that's what they'll be used to paying. Today is definitely an interesting time to be living in, but I'm glad I was born when I was, and even more glad to be dead when that ultimately bland, vacant and indoctrinated future arrives in full.

So there's one old man's Friday morning rant. Coffee's ready. Happy weekend.
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MWoody
Posted 2018-08-10 2:15 PM (#544863 - in reply to #544813)
Subject: Re: Whats with Ebay Japan ovations?



Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13873

Location: Upper Left USA
So video killed the radio... Online killed the local store... and cursive and rotary dial skills are listed on my resume.

Long live the chat room!
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FlySig
Posted 2018-08-10 4:35 PM (#544864 - in reply to #544813)
Subject: Re: Whats with Ebay Japan ovations?



Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 3801

Location: Utah
I still think Ovation could have sold a lot of guitars with a decent website that allowed the customer to build and price their customized dream. Want a slot head on a Legend? Classic sunburst 12 fret textured wood top? Maple T neck on an Adamas? Walnut epi's? None of these are difficult at all for the factory to do.

This is how the millennials think and shop today. Heck, I'm not young and this is how I bought a car recently.

People who walk into a store can't buy something the store doesn't have. Stores here seem to be able to stock a variety of $1500+ guitars, including some $5k+ guitars. An Adamas or two on the wall would likely sell. My local M&P tells me the distributor requires a large inventory to be stocked, which the store can't afford. But they'd be thrilled to have a few if they could. They're true O/A fans there.

Several guitar brands seem to have success even in this declining musical instrument market.
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d'ovation
Posted 2018-08-10 5:12 PM (#544865 - in reply to #544864)
Subject: Re: Whats with Ebay Japan ovations?


Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 727

Location: Canada

FlySig - 2018-08-10 4:35 PM Several guitar brands seem to have success even in this declining musical instrument market.

No kidding, I live in a smallish city of about 200k in the middle of nowhere. We have a great luthier in town who builds fantastic mandolins and guitars, and who is also a Guild and Martin dealer. Last month he got a C.F.Martin 1937 D-28 AUTHENTIC AGED into the store, one of two in Canada, at a price ($13K) more than three times higher than most of his other fine guitars  ... and the thing sold within two weeks before I could even have a look at it! 

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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2018-08-10 6:35 PM (#544866 - in reply to #544864)
Subject: Re: Whats with Ebay Japan ovations?



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10275

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
FlySig - 2018-08-10 2:35 PM

I still think Ovation could have sold a lot of guitars with a decent website that allowed the customer to build and price their customized dream. Want a slot head on a Legend? Classic sunburst 12 fret textured wood top? Maple T neck on an Adamas? Walnut epi's? None of these are difficult at all for the factory to do.

I have always wondered why there wasn't such a website.
I don't understand why Ovation (or any guitar company) doesn't just sell Direct to the consumer.


Several guitar brands seem to have success even in this declining musical instrument market.

I also am not sure that the market is declining.
I think the Fender sells a bunch of Squires. Martin and Taylor sell a bunch of Mexican guitars.
I also think that guitars are more easily available than there were when I was young.
When I lived in Boston in the 1970's, I think that I remember Three Music Stores in a Major City.
And all of them were in the "seedier" parts of town.

Jay -

Companies have to make a profit, right?

When all of your profits go to Shareholders, then you cannot survive.
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alpep
Posted 2018-08-10 8:39 PM (#544868 - in reply to #544813)
Subject: Re: Whats with Ebay Japan ovations?


Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10270

Location: NJ
If you sell direct to the consumer you are competing with your retailers.
you can't have it both ways
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jay
Posted 2018-08-11 9:26 AM (#544870 - in reply to #544866)
Subject: Re: Whats with Ebay Japan ovations?



Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 1199

Location: Texas

OMA

When all of your profits go to Shareholders, then you cannot survive. 

That generalized statement could be a viable possibility if either DW (or Fender before it) were publically owned. 

 

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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2018-08-11 12:42 PM (#544871 - in reply to #544813)
Subject: Re: Whats with Ebay Japan ovations?



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10275

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
Fender tried to have an IPO, but nobody would buy it. (Fender is not really that profitable)
http://fortune.com/2012/07/20/why-fender-pulled-its-ipo/
That does not mean the Fender does no have investors, or a board of directors that makes decisions totally based on return on investment. And these investors want their Money, hence the failed IPO.

Obviously I know nothing about business.
Also I should not comment about the business side because I buy most of my guitars Used.
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