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BFLG Advice? Can you 'trim' an OPP Saddle?

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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2008-12-14 4:27 AM (#6823)
Subject: BFLG Advice? Can you 'trim' an OPP Saddle?



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR		Okay... I have an Ultra 2178 with an OP-Pro and the appropriate saddle.
I have taken all the shims out, and the action was still high with the original strings...
So I put on EJ-26 (.011 - .052) custom light strings... Still high.
So... Even thought I hate wasting stings, after a week I removed them and just put EJ-15 (.010 - .047) on there and it is better.
But they are extra-light strings, and they sound that way too.

This guitar is made in Korea, so it has a dove-tail neck joint...
So I cannot take it apart and reset the neck like my Elite T's.
So... Can I fine 'grooves' in this kind of saddle to lower the strings?
Would this destroy the pick-up sound, or screw-up the break angle?

(Of course I will get an eBarf saddle to do this, not just hack-away at my only saddle.)

This kind of saddle (on this guitar)...


So... Any advice, experience, strength, hope, that y'all could share would be appreciated. :cool:
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Damon67
Posted 2008-12-14 4:31 AM (#6824 - in reply to #6823)
Subject: Re: BFLG Advice? Can you 'trim' an OPP Saddle?



Joined:
December 2006
Posts: 6992

Location: Jet City		Didn't you just buy that new?

If so send it back and get another. If not, sell it and buy another. I don't thnik there's much you can do to the saddle, but maybe you could trim away some of the bridge under the saddle.

I'd just get rid of it and find a new one.
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2008-12-14 5:28 AM (#6825 - in reply to #6823)
Subject: Re: BFLG Advice? Can you 'trim' an OPP Saddle?



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR		Yeah... I just bought it, but not from an Authorized dealer... I don't believe.
I didn't take a photo, but under the saddle there is just the top of the guitar. It's red like the top. They didn't rout for the bridge like they do for the USO's...
With lighter strings the height is almost acceptable.

I'm a lousy guitarist, but I am a snob and I like my strings low.
I may just ebarf it and let someone else worry about it. I could sell it for what the old listing says I paid for it and get my money back...[I had a discount card]
It is still a nice enough guitar. I am sure there are plenty of people who think that 3/32" or 1/8" is acceptable... I'm just not one of them.

The sad thing is that Ovation is sending out things with action that high.
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FlySig
Posted 2008-12-14 9:47 AM (#6826 - in reply to #6823)
Subject: Re: BFLG Advice? Can you 'trim' an OPP Saddle?



Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4025

Location: Utah		First dumb question: have you tweaked the truss rod to proper relief?

Second dumb question: how high is the nut? Could filing the nut slots deeper be a solution?

Last dumb question (of this post): does the top seem otherwise ok, especially the bracing?

The pickup is stuck on the bottom of the saddle, so I think you could easily file down the top side without any problems at all. I wouldn't notch it like a nut, though, I'd take down the entire top surface.
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Damon67
Posted 2008-12-14 2:27 PM (#6827 - in reply to #6823)
Subject: Re: BFLG Advice? Can you 'trim' an OPP Saddle?



Joined:
December 2006
Posts: 6992

Location: Jet City
Originally posted by FlySig:
The pickup is stuck on the bottom of the saddle, so I think you could easily file down the top side without any problems at all. I wouldn't notch it like a nut, though, I'd take down the entire top surface.
I think this has an Ovation pickup in it, not the undersaddle. OMA?
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Jonmark Stone
Posted 2008-12-14 2:34 PM (#6828 - in reply to #6823)
Subject: Re: BFLG Advice? Can you 'trim' an OPP Saddle?


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1553

Location: Indiana		The piezo's in the original patented PU are below the plastic saddle pieces. So yes, the saddles can be carefully filed down.
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2008-12-14 4:27 PM (#6829 - in reply to #6823)
Subject: Re: BFLG Advice? Can you 'trim' an OPP Saddle?



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR		Iffy... Truss-rod is correct (almost flat, but no buzz).
The nut is fine, the action at the cowboy frets is fine... It just get progressively higher further down (up) the neck.
Scalloped X bracing looks intact. Top is flat. See...

The action is just high at the higher frets...


And it lowers to normal down by the nut...


I might add that this is with EJ15 extra lights on there. Were I to tighten the truss-rod, I would have No relief (hence fret buzz) and the action would still be high at the upper frets.

Maybe I am expecting too much from a $350 guitar (Yeah, right! :mad: )
And I understand that this is not an electric guitar, but I have the action on all my Ovations set like electric guitars.
It is okay with the extra-lights on it, but it should be okay with lights or maybe mediums.
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FlySig
Posted 2008-12-14 5:39 PM (#6830 - in reply to #6823)
Subject: Re: BFLG Advice? Can you 'trim' an OPP Saddle?



Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4025

Location: Utah		Even if it wasn't an authorized dealer, the store should still give you satisfaction. $350 is a good chunk of change and you should get a guitar that can be set up to your approval. If you can't get it adjusted using normal techniques, I'd see if they will exchange or refund.
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2008-12-14 6:35 PM (#6831 - in reply to #6823)
Subject: Re: BFLG Advice? Can you 'trim' an OPP Saddle?



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
Originally posted by FlySig:
$350 is a good chunk of change...
yes... I know
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MWoody
Posted 2008-12-14 9:24 PM (#6832 - in reply to #6823)
Subject: Re: BFLG Advice? Can you 'trim' an OPP Saddle?



Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13983

Location: Upper Left USA		So OMie,

This one is an epoxied in neck with the inlaid epaulet top, mid bowl and an OP PRO and OHSC?

I'll trade you a nice electric with sweet low action.
Then I can whack away at the bridge and if I fix it we can trade back... or not.

A friend of mine was looking for an acoustic anyway.
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2008-12-14 10:44 PM (#6833 - in reply to #6823)
Subject: Re: BFLG Advice? Can you 'trim' an OPP Saddle?



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR		This sounds like a Good Idea! :cool:
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Damon67
Posted 2008-12-14 11:05 PM (#6834 - in reply to #6823)
Subject: Re: BFLG Advice? Can you 'trim' an OPP Saddle?



Joined:
December 2006
Posts: 6992

Location: Jet City		you gotta love this place.
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MWoody
Posted 2008-12-17 10:50 PM (#6835 - in reply to #6823)
Subject: Re: BFLG Advice? Can you 'trim' an OPP Saddle?



Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13983

Location: Upper Left USA		Well...

The answer is that you might be able to trim a saddle but I ask why... when you can route the saddle slot instead!





The Low E is at 4/64" at the 12th and the high e is at 3/64". It now has a thick and a thin shim underneath. The worst part was that the slot was not parallel with the guitar deck. I basically taped on a set of guides and removed about 1/16" from the slot, shaved the forward part of the Bridge and adusted the Truss Rod.

Also, the strings on there are Adamas .012"-.053".
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2008-12-17 11:18 PM (#6836 - in reply to #6823)
Subject: Re: BFLG Advice? Can you 'trim' an OPP Saddle?



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR		Very Cool!

That is exactly what I wanted to do...
[And what they should have done when they made it!]
It is so cool to have someone who knows their way around a wood shop.

I have a hobo's toolbox... Screwdriver, pliers and a Brick!
I gotta get me a ruler just like that too!
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Otto
Posted 2008-12-18 12:14 AM (#6837 - in reply to #6823)
Subject: Re: BFLG Advice? Can you 'trim' an OPP Saddle?



Joined:
March 2008
Posts: 179

Location: Central Florida		Woody, it looks like you're into the soundboard wood there. How deep?

And did you use some kind of pilot bit or did you form up a template for the router?

Otto
.
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MWoody
Posted 2008-12-18 8:59 AM (#6838 - in reply to #6823)
Subject: Re: BFLG Advice? Can you 'trim' an OPP Saddle?



Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13983

Location: Upper Left USA		I just kissed the soundboard and the bit on my Dremel acted as its own pilot as you guessed.

OMA - It's easier to whack on something if you think you own it.
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2008-12-19 12:23 AM (#6839 - in reply to #6823)
Subject: Re: BFLG Advice? Can you 'trim' an OPP Saddle?



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR		The Saga Continues... Decisions-Decisions.... :confused:



Any input is always appreciated! It may not affect my decision, but I DO appreciate it.

Oh! And Woody... "It's easier to whack on something if you think you own it."

You do, don't you? :cool:
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FlySig
Posted 2008-12-19 9:45 AM (#6840 - in reply to #6823)
Subject: Re: BFLG Advice? Can you 'trim' an OPP Saddle?



Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4025

Location: Utah		If it were me, I'd keep AJ's sunburst. Simply because it is original equipment. But the MWoody rework is a beauty too.
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MWoody
Posted 2008-12-19 11:04 AM (#6841 - in reply to #6823)
Subject: Re: BFLG Advice? Can you 'trim' an OPP Saddle?



Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13983

Location: Upper Left USA		The age old question over "stock" and "modified" rises again. That's why I send him two.

I won't bother you for a choice until mid January so relax and hurt the neighbors!

As to the issue with the jack in the Retro (Rutt-row Shraggy) I replaced the jack just before sending it and I couldn't replicate the crackle so I think there might be an issue in the Volume pot. It's a Stewmac 250K unit and it is easily replaced.

I think everyone needs to play a Viper at some time at least as a reference point. In my BFLG Research I have found that the Artec hi output alnico 5 pups can come pretty close to the original 10K wrapped Viper pups.

Enjoy the Ice Cream!

And if anyone wants to give an Ultra 2178 with a contour bowl, OP Pro, inlaid Epaulets and a nice low action let me know! I think I have too many guitars...
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